[Approved] Forbid Community Name Sales / Commission Name Sales

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[Approved] Forbid Community Name Sales / Commission Name Sales
  1. Unread #41 - Mar 18, 2023 at 4:13 PM
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    [Approved] Forbid Community Name Sales / Commission Name Sales

    I’d say it’s somewhat of a grey area. Because the servers charge 20% in total for the service. 10% for the listing of the name to advertise it for sale, the other 10% for the actual mm/xfer of the name.

    If the listings were
     
  3. Unread #42 - Mar 18, 2023 at 4:14 PM
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    [Approved] Forbid Community Name Sales / Commission Name Sales

    I’d say it’s somewhat of a grey area. Because the servers charge 20% in total for the service. 10% for the listing of the name to advertise it for sale, the other 10% for the actual mm/xfer of the name.

    If the listings were made on the servers as a way to also attract business into using their mm/xfer service and charged a flat 10% - then at that point I’d say it’s fair. But the other 10% is purely just a listing fee incurred for the price of it being listed on their server. I’d say that’s the part that doesn’t fall under “outsourcing”.

    Also, the TOS on these discords also explicitly tells you that you’re not allowed to advertise it on Sythe at the same time.

    If people want to offer this service for the same price as their MM/transfer services then I think that’s absolutely fair game. Gives the community another source of potential eyes on the name, gives the seller a guaranteed 10% transfer fee on the name at minimum. But asking for an additional 5-10% on top and requiring it not be listed anywhere else is purely just for the profit of the seller and benefits nobody else (including Sythe).

    Even having a small rule change on this to prevent the above, while still allowing it in some capacity, might be a better middle ground.

    Sorry, accidentally deleted half the message before sending above. Lmao.
     
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  5. Unread #43 - Mar 19, 2023 at 11:18 AM
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    [Approved] Forbid Community Name Sales / Commission Name Sales


    This whole thing was already reported on a topic in the past, mods all met together to discuss it and it was accepted, since both the buyer/sellers are fully aware of the situation.

    Also the 5-10% listing fee isn't just for the fact its on our list, it's for all the time spent with the negotiations (if occured, because it does happen A LOT) aswell as all the explaining, bonding, setting the accounts up with temporary passwords, communications, timing the 3 parties involved (sometimes takes 7 days+ to finally have all 3 online at the same time) + Receiving Payment on our old accounts (which also puts them at risk for RWT bans) + setting up for the transfer, testing rs website for laggs, doing the transfer, telling people to delete account details from PM's, telling them to change passwords back to normal, then meeting the seller ingame to deliver the GP, then telling them to post feedbacks on sythe, if they do not own an account we have to link them to it and explain how it works etc etc...

    It's not just 2 buttons we have to click and its over, most trades start to finish easily takes 30-45 minutes, some takes hours when people are slow at responding and are new to the system with all verifications (Sometimes Sythe PM full confirmation has to be sent aswell etc).


    20% is our highest fee, on a 500m name the seller receives 400m.
    So 100m is our profit (me and achilles, we try and cover 24/7) so 50m each.
    Half of this is for the transfer risk (we have to fully refund the 500m if a name is lost from our pocket)

    So my actual profit on this listing is 25m. 6.75$ for 45 minutes... If anyone says this is greedy and shouldn't be a thing, then IDK what to say.

    Is this really SO MUCH of an issue here?
     
  7. Unread #44 - Mar 19, 2023 at 11:51 AM
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    [Approved] Forbid Community Name Sales / Commission Name Sales

    You can't basicly base your profits on the minimum you allow people to list for.
    The same fee goes for 2b names?
    You have a well written guide on everything, there shouldn't be any explaining beside linking them toward that channel if im not mistaken here?
    Communication wise, they just inform you when they available and plan out a time so I don't see it take "45 minutes" broski. Id say on and off maybe 10-15 minutes of typing/ reading and maybe even explaining + taking payment and transfer.

    So your profits would be 20% of 500-2000M could be between 100m to 400m which equals 30$ - 120$ with current days 07 gp rate which is then split with achilles I assume so making it 15-60$ for 10-15 minute of easy work idk how to justify this. I don't think you can half the profits, due to the traffic you end up getting more transfers than usual too.

    Idk how you comfortably sit there and say this whole system isn't greedy tho.
    You charge a fee for your own benefit is the first point.
    You rule the market by allowing people to list with you. You put every other smaller seller behind the lights, other community sale discords AGREE to removing it aswell as smaller sellers.
    Remove transfer traffic that used to be better spread around sellers.
    Remove name traffic between sellers.
    Your system is literally middlemanning, I see middlemen charge 1% if not free, yet this is 5-10% fee + transfer.

    The time you spend on actually listing for people is the same amount of time you spend on purchasing a rsn, running through tutorial island, selling the rsn. This includes 2x the risk yet we others charge 10% for this process which is basicly more "intensive" and more "risky" if you can call it that.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2023
  9. Unread #45 - Mar 19, 2023 at 11:55 AM
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    You cba listing 100m - 200m names? Why is there a limit if you think of helping people? Not worth your time well fair, but you run a system that you believe is supposed to help people and the market. It obviously isnt for the money according to you so why do you not allow lower tier names to be listed and charge 25% if you're looking at rest of the system.

    In the end, I 110% support Achilles in whatever. He is a great guy, he worked hard, he spend a lot of damn hours and planned this out. So this suggestion thread is not personal obviously, its just sharing thoughts :)
     
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  11. Unread #46 - Mar 19, 2023 at 12:56 PM
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    [Approved] Forbid Community Name Sales / Commission Name Sales

    Feel free to ask Achilles how much TOTAL the listing + communications + acc preps + payment + transfer + payment delivery takes in average, deffinitely not 10 minutes. I've been doing this for 5 years man I've seen it all, trust me. Some takes 20 at best (With returning customers who are used to do it often), some takes 2h+

    Yes I charge a fee for my own benefits, for our effort/time invested into it like ANY business on this planet do.

    Are you the one who has spent over 15k $ in advertisement/logos/threads/sponsors and more since my server creation? It's as simple as paying an Apple watch 3x the price because they spend billions on advertisement, their watch are not any better than any other brands, deffinitely not 3x better atleast.

    As I repeat myself already, 10% of it is for the transfer, then there's a 5-10% commission, yes regular Middlemen for other submarkets are offering 2-5%. Thats for Accounts in general which easily can sell for 200-2000$ each, what's 5% of 2'000$ ? 100$ for a 30-45 minutes trade (WITH ABSOLUTELY NO RISK) just receiving money then transfering the account details from one to another with maybe an email registration switch. Same principle? Are you gonna go and report all MM's to make their service free too? Or is it just to report us because it affected YOUR sales? I'm not trying to argue, this is just another example where YES BUSINESSES DO CHARGES SOME FEES.

    Yes we do it for little extra money WHILE HELPING COSTUMERS, they are able to resell their name for top price instead of beeing offered 30% of what they paid. Can't say I'm only here for the $ else I would still be doing those *buy 300m names to re-sell at 1.25b* like we used to with ease.


    Also on your last text above, you don't buy names to re-sell @ 10% profit, don't BS me here brother.. I know what names market margins are/were, as I said I've been abusing those margins past 5 years.. If I was ONLY money hungry, I'd return to those easy 3x profits.


    I'm down to keep replying if anyone else has opposing opinions, we can all talk like mature men. I've been harrassed + people trolling me around already since the creation of this report already from alt discord accounts so (not poiting at anyone but I know you're clearly reading this atm).
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2023
  13. Unread #47 - Mar 19, 2023 at 1:51 PM
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    [Approved] Forbid Community Name Sales / Commission Name Sales

    Uhm, fair enough if you spend that long on a transaction. I surely don't and can't really imagine a 2 hour transaction at all.

    And top price resales for a customer is also possible toward a name seller.
    Several times i've seen names being bought and resold again, even to other sellers and then listed higher.

    Once again, you pay for a branding of your account, a name represents you. For the fact you find something else surely there is a loss, but if people were happy to be patient and not take the first offer, they wouldn't have to sell for 30% of the buying price? Its the approach of the individual how much they get back, your commission sales buffed all prices, because they list it with the thought of knowing they don't want to pay for the fee, therefor they add it to the price.

    If commission sales was really the "Solution" - why is the other people running commission sales also willing to stop it? Infact, this suggestion thread was created by 1/3 of the owners of this system. Its only your shop that is denying the fact that its not good for the actual market.

    But times have changed, you have way more competitors than 5 years ago - you might've bought a name that you had sold for 30% fair enough if so, that's your way of doing business - but its just not how the market is now.
    People are way more aware of the prices, and not often do people want to buy a name for 2b, and then actually agree to selling it for 600m (30%) as you mention. But its not how the market is build, people browse different sellers, tells them about C/O and then 2nd seller beats that, and 3rd beats that and so on. Its a competition, I can probably find you examples of names that have never been on the market, guy tries to sell it for more than I would myself, or where it had offer of 200m and ended up at 2b somehow?
    I surely can guarantee you that if you offer 30% of the price you sold a name for? Its most likely gonna be beaten on the offer if the actual person reaches out for the opportunity to get more.
    If not, its a lack of investigation and motive to not get ripped off at 30%.

    There is a reason your shop is the only one not agreeing to see the fact that the market was better without it, and it simply comes from lack of time. I myself have a busy schedule now, I know how it is and how much potential you can miss out on.

    And time wise? I don't calculate the time a reply is pending and all, the actual time explaining/ typing/ arguing/ finding the right price/ transfer/ setup transfer/ run tutorial island is all around actively 10-15 maybe 20 minutes at max if so with ALL activity included. A pending reply or so isn't really counted in, if it were the fact called "time is money" then most of us would have lost money on the time we spend and some other guy purchases the name or guy just disappears.

    But you mention helping customers?
    Bro, if you want to help them - don't charge them up to 20% fee total?
    Take my suggestion and make it to what? 1%-2% more automated and surely i'd say fair, these guys are in the game to help the community not think about $ or keep your firm 10% optional fee on transfers? You have the traffic of transfer requests alone by the commission sales?
    You ain't helping... I still stand by the fact its a greedy thing if you can't look around at others in the same business around you nor decrease the fees to something more realistic and fair.
     
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  15. Unread #48 - Mar 19, 2023 at 2:22 PM
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    @XO I agree with most things you’re saying now but do keep in mind that transfer fee’s use to be 20% but people on sythe are greedy & they never want to work together to “run” the community and they undercut each other like no tomorrow which is why it’s at that 10% now. Also name swapping for other community / socials is it cost 10-30% to swap & if sniped too bad the payment was for the professional to provide that service (now ofc you’re only going to pay someone with high vouches in swapping)

    Same goes for middlemanning… go to another site & you’ll see that shit ain’t free as it shouldn’t imo.

    what I see here tho is manipulative though, I see someone trying to be the white knight of the community & say it’s purely for the community. However they are charging that 5-10%+
    In their argument they are trying to quote the lowest fee’s to try & write a narrative of being that person that isn’t making good $$ from this market still by listing others names. Because ultimately if you wanna brag about your salary, claim you work 400 hours a week or whatever it is, simply you wouldn’t NOT be DOING this. This $6 to you would be more of an eye sore than it would be beneficial.
     
  17. Unread #49 - Mar 20, 2023 at 9:00 AM
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    [Approved] Forbid Community Name Sales / Commission Name Sales

    Yes get rid.

    I have read this thread like others a few times now without replying until now, the main issue you find is it doesn't allow the "little guys" to get some of that cake too. People often go where they know, and this means discord over the forum, you're not actively looking on the forums and such where these other little hidden gems are which is a shame.

    This is not to mention the clear manipulative bullshit that comes with the bigger sellers both attitudes and feelings towards the market, I get people will claim "well we're a free market, that means it's every man for themselves" and yes I get that to an extent. If you want to continue making money then you should respect it more and respect those around you, if you cant uphold a bar because it breaks into your "big boy profits" then scap it.

    Edit -

    As for the ballsack above, middlemanning isn't a fee based activity. Some charge some don't, majority don't though unless they are a lot like you just trying to milk the community.

    And with that being said, let's go back to the fee prices for names and stuff in general surrounding it. How do we know you're not sniping the names yourselves, or if there is any risk of said name being sniped at that given time yet still paying a fee towards it not to happen? It goes both ways, and yet just comes back to you guys being greedy.
     
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    Last edited: Mar 20, 2023
  19. Unread #50 - Mar 21, 2023 at 4:24 PM
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    [Approved] Forbid Community Name Sales / Commission Name Sales

    Just so you know, I have nothing against you nor Achilles. I’ve dealt with you both on deals many times in the past.

    Based on the specifics and figures of the example that you’ve just listed, then no. Maybe it’s not too lucrative. I mean, the 10% transfers is still very lucrative - even without this additional fee. I understand there is a risk involved, but that doesn’t mean it’s not still a very profitable business. Look at insurance companies. Their whole selling structure is based on exactly the same thing your transfers are. So what I’m suggesting is, maybe the sale giving you a guaranteed 10% transfer fee is enough, no?

    Also, you didn’t really touch on your ToS stating in black and white that the user isn’t allowed to advertise their name elsewhere (including Sythe). That statement seems to directly go against the idea that it’s driving business towards Sythe, as you earlier mentioned. You’re QUITE LITERALLY telling people not to go and also list on Sythe. Why? Because that would lose your profit.

    We’re also not considering the times where it really is a quick transaction for a total of 20% taken. Or a 30-45 minute transaction on a 5b+ name at 15%. Totaling 750M. Suddenly the transfer and selling fee at $225 are very worthwhile for your 30-45 minutes, or even 5-15 if all runs smoothly.

    Hell, want to really make it just a place for the community to sell names? Make the ticket system open a ticket with the potential buyer and also the seller instead. Let them negotiate themselves. You still MM/xfer it and charge the standard 10%, have it as a place for people to list their names and you still get a piece of the pie for being that platform. But not an extra piece.

    I think at the absolute minimum - if this isn’t removed or disallowed then there should at least be a ruling which disallows these “community sales” to ban the names to be advertised outside of their server once listed. If it’s really to help the community, allow them to list it wherever they like. If a sale occurs through your server, great! You get your cut and everyone walks away happy. If it sells elsewhere, let’s say... Sythe, that’s also fine, right?

    I personally still think that the community sales should be limited to just allowing the basic transfer fee to be charged upon sale, I think that’s what’s really good for Sythe. But that’s just my 2 cents worth.
     
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  21. Unread #51 - Mar 21, 2023 at 6:12 PM
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    +1
    use real numbers not your phony 500m x .20 = 100m
    & then splitting in half

    Let’s talk about real sales
     
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  23. Unread #52 - Apr 2, 2023 at 9:17 PM
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    I'd like to point this out as well, forgot to post this before. However i think this is kinda like "buying votes" because you guys knew none of the other name sellers that actually matter support this, so you've asked ur community which we can see above some did comment to support you.

    Pretty lame tbh

    [​IMG]
     
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  25. Unread #53 - Apr 2, 2023 at 9:29 PM
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    [Approved] Forbid Community Name Sales / Commission Name Sales

    You are delusional if you’re trying to make the argument that account middlemen make a commission for their efforts, and even more delusional if you're comparing that to the topic being discussed. The entire reason we did away with the “official middleman” role is because no one was using them because they charged a fee. You can EASILY find a middleman whose services are free. No one pays for account MM services. That’s a factless argument.
     
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    Last edited: Apr 3, 2023
  27. Unread #54 - Apr 5, 2023 at 9:55 AM
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    [Approved] Forbid Community Name Sales / Commission Name Sales

    Lmfao?

    You are the one who keeps saying *Community sales are SO BAD FOR THE COMMUNITY*

    I ask them to give their own personal opinions and you complain?


    So only other sellers who are affected by my new system are allowed to post or what?

    Ofcourse *votes* as you call them will be in your favor if you've only pmed other affected sellers the link lmao.


    Costumers opinions matter too.
    They simply never look at these report topics though.

    I know you've always hated me but you're just making yourself look dumb right now lol.
     
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    Last edited: Apr 5, 2023
  29. Unread #55 - Apr 5, 2023 at 11:43 AM
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    ?
    I helped you anti scam the name bye, & have always responded to you & your partner pretty nicely even shared personal photos…. this ain’t about disliking one another bud

    Also a mod from sythe said it would be funny to post & actually gave me the idea that it was just like buying votes & it was dumb af which I agree
     
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  31. Unread #56 - Apr 12, 2023 at 11:04 PM
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    [Approved] Forbid Community Name Sales / Commission Name Sales

    Forbid it it’s bullshit went to buy a name after waiting and getting the funds together just for the seller to “back out” due to a name being undervalued? Doesn’t make sense if you don’t have the names don’t offer them

    so yes it’s bad for the community shit way to sell names…..

    how is that okay??????? I don’t understand how you can post something at x amount lock in on a deal then come back x amount of time later saying the seller changed his mind…… so who’s responsible for wasting my time ? Who’s responsible for the false advertising? Bad for business next!

    it’s also selling something you don’t have, I can’t sell accs like that….. or sell services because my buddy can skill….. remove this crud
     
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    Last edited: Apr 13, 2023
  33. Unread #57 - Jun 7, 2023 at 10:02 AM
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    name selling is a bit of a hassle as it were. nothing major but it is a hassle. sniping being #1
    using a forum removes real-time communications esp when setting up an initial trade deal.
    in any name transfer i've been part of - we end up on discord to facilitate the entire transaction.

    if sythe wants the traffic then sythe will need to provide us with something more appealing in terms of viewing the seller(s) listings.
    if it would be anything like the accounts section - it'll be bigger hassle and likely turn some people away.

    when i want to view their inventory of RSNs its really straight forward - a list. no threads or sub forums to dig through.
    if the commission stuff goes away we'll need something equally simple and basic as a replacement.
    no way would anyone want to give up the ability to see a large collection of names in a single list compared to browsing a handful of threads for the smaller number(s) listed. in other words we shouldn't replace name-reseller-discords with a ton of threads on scythe. its too time consuming peeking into the various threads to see a list of names.

    as for the price-hike - thats not the name sellers as much as it is the buyers. most of us are adults with jobs and disposable income.


    all that rambling shit aside i do like having the simplicity they provide today.
     
  35. Unread #58 - Jun 7, 2023 at 10:37 AM
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    [Approved] Forbid Community Name Sales / Commission Name Sales

    Removing commission sales would not eliminate name sellers from advertising via discord lists..

    They’ve been doing that for years; long before commission sales became popular.
     
    ^ XO and 60 like this.
  37. Unread #59 - Jul 11, 2023 at 5:32 AM
  38. owned
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    [Approved] Forbid Community Name Sales / Commission Name Sales

    Alex seems to be the champion on this thread of not wanting commission name sales forbidden. Candidly, this makes sense as he has significant financial gain/loss at stake.

    Alex/Achilles selling a known sniped name "proxy" - 4.5B. Another reason why commission name sales should be forbidden, see below.

    https://www.sythe.org/threads/achilles-and-alex-selling-sniped-names

    Not only are they facilitating the sale of a scammed/sniped name, but they're attempting to deny liability of doing so via timeline gray area that comes with commission sales.

    Commission sales need to go.
     
    ^ Beast and WFAF like this.
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2023
  39. Unread #60 - Jul 11, 2023 at 10:48 AM
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    [Approved] Forbid Community Name Sales / Commission Name Sales

    On top of that they are also listing names that are on the Avoid list & deleting the avoid list announcement in their server.

    I’ve had many people message me regarding this & not understanding why some name sellers must be held accountable for an avoid list while others can delete to bypass the rule?
    Makes no sense
     
    ^ owned likes this.
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