- Joined
- Jul 24, 2009
- Sythe Gold
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This idea is for the sake of everyone involved in disputes. Right now the rule that covers scamming says the following:
"Scamming: Or any suspicious behavior similar to scamming (attempting to scam), this includes RuneScape name Sniping. This also includes:
I believe that the wording of this rule is far too limited and should thus be expanded. Especially when taking into consideration that mods have ruled more than once that a number of things which, when looking at their wording, fall outside the scope of this rule are still punishable (for example: encouraging a third-party to trade with a scammer, see: Prizford).
Now you may think: but it's kind of obvious what's right and what's wrong. Why implement that through rules? Five reasons:
1. Scamming is a pretty big deal, specifically on Sythe. Furthermore, there are thousands of disputes handled that deal with all sorts of different situations of different magnitude. There is no way all those situations are covered by these four lines.
2. specifically for the sake of clarity this is important. Although some things may seem intuitively wrong, some other things may be debatable. Expanding the current rule is especially important for situations that fall in the grey area. For example, there is no rule that prohibits lying as a means to finalize a sale. Why is this debatable? Well, some may argue that they are not lying because they still fall under the scope of advertisement.
3. For the sake of the parties in the dispute: right now basically everything falls under the discretion of: "suspicious behavior similar to". It's impossible to look in someone's head and see what they specifically consider as sus behavior. This can be frustrating when you're party to a dispute. There doesn't need to be an exhaustive set of rules, but more clarity is welcome. Furthermore, a lot of time allegations in disputes fly all over the place, and energy by of parties (including mods who have to go through all the text) is wasted.
4. For the sake of mods: First of all, mods will have more tools to hold on to. But secondly, the credibility of dispute-resolvers: see this report again: Prizford
Substantively I may agree (or disagree) with the ruling, but in my opinion, a ruling has much more strength if the resolver can refer to a specific (wording of a) rule that is breached which should lead to a very specific punishment/verdict. Again, no need for an exhaustive set of rules. Discretion is necessary to allow mods to do their work, but more tools equals more better.
5. You may think: this is a black market dealing with videogames, no need to professionalize it. The point is: yes it deals with videogames, but there are thousands of trades going on, sometimes dealing with thousands of dollars. It's important to have very clear-cut rules here. Online dispute resolution is becoming a bigger and bigger thing and parties tend to opt for a resolver that has clear rules.
This thread isn't meant as a concrete proposal. My goal is to start an open discussion with proposals. I will get the ball rolling and start off with some ideas that can be implemented. Perhaps, some of these are already addressed in a section (or not necessary at all). The following should be implemented:
-Knowing of an ongoing scam without intervening
-Knowingly be in possession of stolen goods
-Knowingly assisting a scam in any sort of way
-Anything that (without consent) increases the financial risk of a party: this can range from a service-provider being careless with the login-data of a customer to being responsible for disproportionately late arrival of crypto-payment
-Lying to make a deal happen: would the deal have happened had the untruth not been told?
-Most exotic proposal: add/refer to rules that result from certain rulings
If you're opposed to the idea, I respect that. However, if you think: good idea, please feel free to add some situations that should be implemented in the expansion.
"Scamming: Or any suspicious behavior similar to scamming (attempting to scam), this includes RuneScape name Sniping. This also includes:
- Using Sythe as a means to lure other Sythe members will result in a permanent DNT and 3 month ban. However, luring done without the use of Sythe is fine.
- Impersonating other members, and any other similar behavior.
- Impersonating ranks through the use of your signature."
I believe that the wording of this rule is far too limited and should thus be expanded. Especially when taking into consideration that mods have ruled more than once that a number of things which, when looking at their wording, fall outside the scope of this rule are still punishable (for example: encouraging a third-party to trade with a scammer, see: Prizford).
Now you may think: but it's kind of obvious what's right and what's wrong. Why implement that through rules? Five reasons:
1. Scamming is a pretty big deal, specifically on Sythe. Furthermore, there are thousands of disputes handled that deal with all sorts of different situations of different magnitude. There is no way all those situations are covered by these four lines.
2. specifically for the sake of clarity this is important. Although some things may seem intuitively wrong, some other things may be debatable. Expanding the current rule is especially important for situations that fall in the grey area. For example, there is no rule that prohibits lying as a means to finalize a sale. Why is this debatable? Well, some may argue that they are not lying because they still fall under the scope of advertisement.
3. For the sake of the parties in the dispute: right now basically everything falls under the discretion of: "suspicious behavior similar to". It's impossible to look in someone's head and see what they specifically consider as sus behavior. This can be frustrating when you're party to a dispute. There doesn't need to be an exhaustive set of rules, but more clarity is welcome. Furthermore, a lot of time allegations in disputes fly all over the place, and energy by of parties (including mods who have to go through all the text) is wasted.
4. For the sake of mods: First of all, mods will have more tools to hold on to. But secondly, the credibility of dispute-resolvers: see this report again: Prizford
Substantively I may agree (or disagree) with the ruling, but in my opinion, a ruling has much more strength if the resolver can refer to a specific (wording of a) rule that is breached which should lead to a very specific punishment/verdict. Again, no need for an exhaustive set of rules. Discretion is necessary to allow mods to do their work, but more tools equals more better.
5. You may think: this is a black market dealing with videogames, no need to professionalize it. The point is: yes it deals with videogames, but there are thousands of trades going on, sometimes dealing with thousands of dollars. It's important to have very clear-cut rules here. Online dispute resolution is becoming a bigger and bigger thing and parties tend to opt for a resolver that has clear rules.
This thread isn't meant as a concrete proposal. My goal is to start an open discussion with proposals. I will get the ball rolling and start off with some ideas that can be implemented. Perhaps, some of these are already addressed in a section (or not necessary at all). The following should be implemented:
-Knowing of an ongoing scam without intervening
-Knowingly be in possession of stolen goods
-Knowingly assisting a scam in any sort of way
-Anything that (without consent) increases the financial risk of a party: this can range from a service-provider being careless with the login-data of a customer to being responsible for disproportionately late arrival of crypto-payment
-Lying to make a deal happen: would the deal have happened had the untruth not been told?
-Most exotic proposal: add/refer to rules that result from certain rulings
If you're opposed to the idea, I respect that. However, if you think: good idea, please feel free to add some situations that should be implemented in the expansion.
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