appeal for andys descision to @sythe

@Sythe im posting this in hopes that you can review the decision made, as we and many prominent members of the services communities strongly believe that this decision is extremely bad and sets horrible precedent where things that arent explicitly against the tos are allowed (see example below).

Good day,

I am one of the managers in the main Mafioso server. I’m making this post in response to @Andy decision to overturn the decision made on this report. Mafioso's workers cleaned 1b+ off an end game 2233 ironman...

A little context for the community, and by now @Spencercslv1 should have changed his password and pin. The password on the account was redactedand the pin was 2021. As per spencercslv1’s request there was 2 workers on the account, one of which had pin access and the other didn’t. before finding out the passwords our initial findings at mafioso after reviewing the logs showed that on the date when the account was cleaned, buchu (the worker with pin access) had not opened a new client, meaning it was unlikely that he was the one who took the items. After coming to this conclusion, we decided that the only possible culprit was eslam, who never had pin access, but because the pin was so guessable, we decided that he could have guessed the pin as he was active a few hours before spencer noticed the items were gone. At this point is when we offered compensation to @Spencercslv1 and we could not agree upon an amount that was owed, as he believed the has 0 responsibility in the matter despite his extremely weak pin. The next day after spencer urged sythe to resolve the matter, we became aware that the password was redacted. I cannot describe how weak this password is. Yellowhat admitted to doing services for spencer, and any other place that has ever done services could easily guess the password if he used a similar schema (ie. If he opened a job at chicks and the worker saw the pin was chicks1234, he could go around guessing the top 5-10 server names and easily get into the account). Given how weak both the password and the pin was we decided that the fault in this case was entirely on Spencercslv1. This is when we decided to rescind our pervious offer of repayment because at this point it could be quite literally anybody who has ever seen his login information could be responsible. Oh and his login has been leaked 4 times on haveibeenpwned.


@andys reversing the decision and telling us to pay 4x the bank value implies that spencer has 0 responsibility in the matter. Following this logic if my username was 1234 and my password was 1234, and I accidently leak the password all over the internet, then decide to order services at a competitor, they would take entire responsibility of what occurs on the account. This is an absolutely ludicrous president to set here. Yes our tos doesn’t say “your password cant be shit” but it also doesn’t say you cant go around pming your password to people, there is no tos in the world that covers all the dumb stupid shit people can do. I expect sythe to obey the common sense principle.. ie. If somebody’s tos doesn’t explicitly say “you are not allowed to charge back” am I allowed to charge back on them? Following andys logic its allowed because it isn’t explicitly in the tos.


Furthermore @Yellow_Hat_OSRS_Services directly threatened to dox me (and exx) and “break sythe rules”. Yellowhats friends also threatened to swat me and yellowhat implied that “bad things will happen” and that I wont be able to prove its him, implying that he was the one who will be doing the swatting, but under somebody elses name . Allowing him off with just a warning (private report) is dumb. Next time I dislike a sythe ruling I know what to do, start a strawman argument to enrage people, while claiming the report was private (the only private info on the thread was the password and the pin) . then go ahead and threaten to dox the other parties involved.


Screenshot - a27fcc13e3c0a8699177319b23ae19e9 - Gyazo

Screen capture - ef30e9ee1fff8e73c9ad5fa8f625f71e - Gyazo

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/786401912244404255/900635991176519750/image0.png

https://i.imgur.com/qJqZlaM.png

 

Re your last thread

At the end of the day, I don't expect to be treated like this from a team that I've spent thousands of dollars with over the past year or so

I hope the community sees how you treat customers

Also this ruling is setting a good precedent
As services for OSRS are dying, providers that scam should be held accountable in order to keep paying customers like me around

 

@Techie

 

@Andy
The point of this thread since it is for feedback is the criticism of how people are supposed to handle situations like this? You need to speak to every single person about what happens? Wait a minute? Isnt that what a TOS is for? But, when we say we cant insure a bank and they still take it, and if this happens again. Sythe will invalidate the TOS. There is no solution.

 

They handled it right

Mafioso scammed me, now they have to pay me back a portion of what it'll cost to get all my items back, not to mention all the time I'll never get back

 

So, apparently, a low-tier worker saying he could arrange the bank beforehand is being used to dismiss the TOS made between the provider and the customer.

So he was given free reign to login multiple times during the service without consequence.

Despite them being low-tier workers, they are "representatives of your service", so yea, agreements between the provider and customer are now invalid.

Furthermore, even with evidence against it being Raids workers, the lack of evidence explicitly proving it was the customer is enough for them to rule in favor of the customer.


Service providers, get fucked @Worthy @Raiever @Pikachu @Baod @bigNsmall

 

Only you and your Mafioso workers, most other people support Spencer - people who are well known on Sythe too.

This is a very poor attempt at blaming it on security on Spencer’s side. How does the “hacker” know that Spencer has an active order taking place? The answer is your flawed ticket system which is on YOU - the service provider. The argument everyone uses it is not a good argument. You know it’s flawed and customers are at a risk of being hacked yet you still use it. This entire point just makes you have the blame for being responsible of cleaning Spencer’s account even if a 3rd party did it because they would have only known from your flawed system! Now, Spencer has been using Mafioso for at least a year based on what he said, I don’t think any logical person would use multiple providers in a small time - they’d stick with one they trust and you broke that. Sure he’s used other services in the past but that was probably a long time ago, most likely a year. It is nonsensical to assume that a previous service provider or worker waited for this opportunity to hack him. And even if they did, it’s on you because of your ticket system and how other people can see the order! Again, it doesn’t mean it’s okay to use it if everyone else does, especially when knowing it’s flawed!

 

Look I had thousands of clients, some with silly simple passwords like hat123 and never had a single issue outside the casual norm. When it came to end game Ironmen I would either personally do the order or I had someone I trusted with $5k+ at a time do it... The situation sucks for @Exxistential @LordZuku but it is what it is. They shouldn't have hired people that would do something like this without a really large deposit, and we still don't even have proof of the deposit amounts which has been avoided countless times. Chances are they can't afford to even repay 5.4b and are sitting here freaking out over it. You shouldn't accept orders you aren't 100% are going to go ok, and you def shouldn't accept ironmen if you have even the slightest chance of hurting a client the way they have done to spence. The situation is if you can't afford to fix issues don't accept the orders and if you can't protect yourself well enough with your TOS don't accept ironmen accounts. How come I was able to do orders for years and never had an issue? It's because I treat my clients accounts like my own and don't risk them for a quick dollar. So many other providers never have issues it just happens this time Mafioso had a bad seed and he raped a client.. its sad but its true. Now they need to pay up so spence can move on and stop making his own cannonballs.

 

You guys are just a very vocal minority. You didn't even know it wasn't my server, so apparently you didn't even read it lol

 

you admitted to knowing spencers login information. how do we know it wasnt you who hacked the account.

you could have seen that his password with you was yellowhat1234 and now you know he has a ticket with us, it would be trivially easy to guess the password and claim a free $1k to help fund your failing nft projects

 

Sure it’s not in your server, you specified that at the start of the original report thread so why are you still going on? Why not bring the original owners of the discord forward?

Well logically, of course we are a minority since you have like 20 workers in your discord ready to stand up for you. Meanwhile, there’s people with 300$ donated to sythe, thousands of posts supporting Spencer. Sure you may have the bigger amount of troops, but our quality of troops are far greater.

 

Sounds like you're too poor to refund the money, we would like it paid within 24 hours if not we will opt to provide a ban until paid, please prepare the funds or I will say you have no intention on paying and you're in the middle of a SQ.

 

They didnt scam you,
someone did, either eslam, or someone else. But there was no scheme to take your money. There was no calculated effort to take your items. something unfortunate happened, and blame was assigned without saying it was. You know that the precedent they are setting literally means that no ironman can ever have a job done on their account ever? If you make the liability so high, no service provided who is competent will ever take a job from you. Because this is beyond what a worker would ever willingly deposit. and in this case Sythe has ruled that the worker was at fault, without being at fault, so he loses his deposit. for something he still says he is innocent for.
Sythe should protect the customers yes, but this is also dicking over almost any worker who is willing to work on an ironman based on the logic "its unlikely they would do it themselves, and no one has ever been hacked by a third party"

 

The

The only worker I gave the pin to was Buchu, so if Eslam received my pin it was from someone else

Service providers won't get fucked as long as they don't scam anyone so get over it