Admins and the Future of Sythe

I have never seen decent activity from the majority of the admins in my entire time of being on Sythe. Maybe if they don't have the time to devote to sythe, then they shouldn't be admins.

It's nothing personal, I really don't dislike any of you, it's just like I said before, the admin role is a big role to fill, and the lack of activity is really hurting sythe.

I have been here for a little over a year, and over that time hardly anything has changed. Sure we get a new section or a new mod once in a while, but nothing really ever changes, and it's slowly hurting sythe. Over this past year I have seen the community slowly die down, and lose its spark. It really isn't the same bustling hub of activity that I came to over a year ago and it sucks because I can see that the possibilities for the site are endless, yet nothing is being pursued. The reason for this is because there is no admin on enough to really make changes, and when a normal member tries to make a change, they might gather good support, but ultimately nothing really happens.

This is also starting to effect the communities mentality towards change as well. It seems that whenever a suggestion is made, it's instantly put into a black or white category. What I mean by this is if it's been said no to before, it's instantly cast down. It is refused to be even discussed. This has given people the impression that what we have is what we have, and any other kind of change is not acceptable. Maybe a tweak here and there, but nothing else will be considered.

Again, this feedback is to ultimately help sythe grow, and hopefully bring about some change before things are broken beyond repair. Besides, we need something to rekindle that spark again.

 

Ah. For five years these words have been uttered unrelentingly.

Yet the site grows... and grows... and grows. It's perhaps worth considering whether the perceived loss of its ''spark'' is a subjective or objective consideration. I'd wager the former. It seems a common trend that people spend a while here and enjoy the site massively and then come to the conclusion that it is somehow dying. Just as a child who eats ice cream every evening will in time become jaded, the individual that spends massive amounts of time on the same site will find himself similarly so.

The plain reality is that the site is, and for the foreseeable future will continue to be, fine. It only becomes problematic in one's mind when they themselves become bored by the site and perceive something to be missing.

 

That is true, and I have considered that before. The thing is, the other points I bring up about change are true. Whether my own personal feelings effect my thoughts on the matter or not, the fact that little change happens remains the same. That in itself is a problem no matter how I feel about the site. The site cannot grow if there is no change. The same logic is being used by facebook, cnn, ign, and other massive websites out there. When someone looks at the same thing every day it grows tiring, so sure we can get new members who are excited, but that leaves the older members out to hang. To truly grow we should be bringing in a new round of members, while also bringing the old community as well, otherwise we are going to be stuck in a limbo in which we might not decline, but we certainly won't grow.

 

Facebook is massively successful. It is consistent in its design, uncluttered, and, significantly here, only makes changes in order to make something simpler or more efficient, which is the doctrine currently guiding Sythe.org's Administrators. People do not become fatigued by lack of change - rather they become fatigued by excessive change with which they cannot keep up. There is a reason mothers complain when bread is moved to the meat aisle and vice versa in their local shop: people like consistency and stability.

It should be remembered that people principally come here to trade goods with one another - they are largely unconcerned by the nature of the community or the design of the site. If the market is accessible and effective, the overwhelming majority of the site's user base is happy.

Sure, maybe 5% want change to keep themselves interested in the site, and those that call for these changes tend to be members principally focussed on the community. My advice here, and I have been active on this site for a very long time now, is that to remain interested you have to interact with the community. If you make an effort to speak to as many different people as possible from all over the world, you will find that it is impossible to become bored of Sythe.org.

 

That's assuming that only "5%" of the people on sythe are here for the community. I would say that that number is much, much larger. People come and go through cycles. While some people get bored, others are just finding the site and become interested. Eventually those bored people leave, and the other newer members replace the bored members. The cycle repeats, and we get more new members, while older members leave, which leaves us in a state of limbo as I said before, where we neither decline nor grow.

There is a vast amount of people who are here for more than just trading. Look at the IRC, or off-topic, or the gaming section, or the runescape section. Although people do trade time to time, I'd say that the 5% is actually the ones based around the market. Not as many people come here on a day to day basis solely for the market as they do the community.

These people are then in turn part of the cycle. The cycle repeats, more people leave, more people join. A few members hang on and keep coming back, but the fact of that matter is a majority of them will just leave. There are maybe 2 or 3 people remaining from the original crowd of people I associated with when I was first here, but now they have been replaced by a whole new bunch of people. If things change, and stay fresh, then there is more reason for the older people to stay, which will leave us with an even bigger community.

As for the part where you said facebook changes to become more efficient or convenient, I would have to disagree. Mark Zuckerberg has stated multiple times that facebook changes it's layout and set up often to keep things fresh for people. They want the same people, that are looking at the same thing every day, to want to keep coming back. It's also a stretch to say that we have the most efficient market on sythe already that doesn't need to be changed at all. There are always things that can be improved, but no one is around to improve them. We should be testing things and trying to make them work instead of the customary "No I don't think that will work well" that is given to everyone who promotes change.

 

Un-deleted and created a new thread, as this is all relevant to Sythe feedback.

 

I'll agree that the feedback and suggestion forums should be modified- but you have to consider all points of view. While an idea may seem fresh from new users, the administration has considered and implemented/attempted to implement many of the items on the DNS list. They simply don't work out well in the long run based on past experience and practicability.

The fact of the matter is that we're here to make sure the site functions, the community remains happy with the site and continues to use it, and the markets flourish. I'm not sure how you define "decent activity" but Richard doesn't require us to flaunt around the site and rightfully so. I can assure you that most administrators log on the site for at least an hour every day. I make it a point to read every post in the feedback forum but replying to all of them isn't reasonable.

We remain open to change and add/remove new markets as the popular games shift. However, we're not "good idea fairies" which brings me to your notion of people leaving the site:

It's simply a fact of life. People grow older and their interests shift. I don't follow your belief that:

Humans are creatures of habit. Massive changes are more likely to draw away users. Runescape is an excellent example of how change draws away original players.

 

I couldn't agree more. I also spend a decent amount of time each day checking through the staff lounge and feedback forums. Our role is mostly a maintenance role. People seem to be underestimating the effort we put in to this site. For example, myself and Karl spent 2-3 hours of non-stop work to recreate the games section. Most administrators had a decent amount of input on the way this new section would run and it was agreed upon by all of the staff.

We all communicate actively with both upper and lower staff, as well as posting a reasonable amount. Just because we seem to be lacking a 'public face', it doesn't mean we're doing nothing.

 

I think that's what x339's getting at though. He'd like for the admins to be more community-involved. But like Nick said, "Richard doesn't require us (admins) to flaunt around the site and rightfully so."

I kinda agree with that. I mean, as long as the admins are doing their jobs and keeping things running smoothly... why not leave the community part to those who have the time and want to be community-involved?

 

The way I see it, the globals are the public face of the upper staff team.

Either way, I feel that I post quite a lot. Not sure why I'm also being scrutinised for never posting.

 

Well spoken.
Even though there hasn't been much changes lately, there's really not much to change, I understand though what x339 means by not enough admin activity.

 

Sigh... This is what I expected to come of this..


Yes admins do their job, yes they don't have to have a public face, but it doesn't mean that they shouldn't. I am sure there are plenty of people who can do the job, and I am sure there are plenty of people who would do the job, and actually act like part of the site too. You guys are treating it like you're the owner of a restaurant. You think that as long as you keep it running, then who cares about going in and associating with you're crew or customers. Well this isn't a restaurant, it's a forum. Forum's are all about community. You should be doing your job by running it, but you should be part of the community too, and if you can't, then maybe you shouldn't be an admin. If you don't have time for the community, or if you don't have interest in the community, then maybe you should step down.

That brings me to my next point.

This can be proven wrong by simply looking at the admins themselves. How long has Verts been here? How long has FireZ been here? How long has Matthew been here? How long has Sythe been the owner? How long has Govind been here? How long has Nick been here? The fact is that although you may have taken breaks from time to time, you're all still here. People want to stay with the site. Sure people leave as time goes on, but we can't expect to keep everyone, and frankly plenty of people still try to stick around, but when things get stale, they have no reason to. There will always be people trying to stick around, and without change, they will have no reason to. Maybe it will turn some people off, but it's better then leaving everyone else behind


I know everyone on this site hates to hear any kind of negative feedback, but I wish that would change. Sure we can all post saying how awesome everyone is, but what is that really going to accomplish? I hope that you all can see that I obviously care about the site and want to help it grow, otherwise I wouldn't be doing this. I have no interest in hurting anyone's feelings, or putting people down, I just want to do whatever I can as a regular member with only the power to post, to help Sythe. So please before you jump on the "Omg negative feedback you're wrong I hate you" bandwagon, think about it, and try to be constructive for the benefit of Sythe.

Edit: It has come to my attention that a lot of people are afraid to post about what they feel needs to be changed on Sythe. The reason for this, I would assume, is that as I said before, whenever someone posts negative feedback they are instantly jumped on by everyone and their cousin. I hope people can post what they are really thinking about, because like I said if we just post about how awesome everyone is, nothing constructive can come of it.

 

Well, what do you suggest needs changing? Other than admin involvement in the community. What "endless possibilities" do you see?

 

Kind of concerned by this. I know it's not a nice thing to be criticised for and some of us may not take it particularly well, but I really hope none of you are scared to post your opinions. If you are, don't be.

 

I have found that it's very much personal preference (though not to assume that they 'choose' as much as have it chosen for them by their natural personality) as to whether people feel "scared" to post about issues that may be bothering them. Those who feel strongly (such as x339 here) have made (and I imagine will continue to make) valid and thought-provoking posts about issues that they feel strongly about.

I personally can't think of many time where I've remembered someone being 'scared' to post based on the supposed reactions to whatever the topic may be. Many times, these types of posts/topics are brought up privately to staff, and discussed and handled accordingly.

Also, in regards to the post I've been quoted in ( Woot! I love being quoted ) I merely meant that yes, we used to (and still do - thinking of you verts) have a few admins who enjoyed posting in community spotlighted sections. I personally feel that the globals, who are admins in many aspects, and sectionals, fill any gap present for staff interaction. Hardly a thread goes by without a global or staff member adding their thoughts/opinions/ideas/support to it.

(forgive any grammar/spelling mistakes I've made... It's 5:33am and I have not slept yet )

Thoughts?

(DOUBLE EDIT True Blood fan Verts ?

 

Praise the lord - someone is on my same wavelength with the global interaction making up for any potential lapse we may have with us administrators being busy!

If people do have some clear ideas of exactly what needs to be changed, then please go ahead.

PS: Yes, I am a True Blood fan!

 

After reading through most the replies, I think the main issue is transparency. One thing I personally do not like is when admins do not give their reasoning for doing something, or at least it seems so, in the sense that they end up appearing like they don't care.


Going back to what Nick brought up, maybe for starters, it would help if there were explanations for what's on the DNS list, from an admin perspective.

 

I can see this, but at the same time I do understand when things are left blurry for reasons.

Many times transparency would be counter-productive (keep in mind that I'm talking about my personal experiences) to the communities overall well-being.

On another level, Sythe has never been a fully transparent community, but neither (I think) has it ever claimed to be.

In regards to the DNS list, I agree that maybe some admin explanations would be supplemental to the original thread (and would keep others from asking why a certain feature etc is on the thread) but neither do I think it is an entirely necessary addition.

 

well as for the future of sythe
i look in the runescape account section and browse through the acc's and its all just member , member , newcomer

 

Do you mean that with a positive or negative connotation?