[Resolved]

Hi,

User: Pharos service
UID: 486533716823244802

Any monetary refund can be given to community fund. Thanks.

Summary:

Joined this discord and had some basic jobs done on a HCIM. At no point did I accept any TOS regarding this service, although I did have a ticket made for me. I had some basic services started on a lvl 3 HCIM with 83 Hunter, 70 Agility, 99 FM which was completed.

Eventually I asked for more services and paid them $100 upfront after some discussion. I asked for updates on this service because I wanted to know where my $100 was being used and I wasn't given any. See screenshot below. I had to ask for updates etc. At the same time, multiple "workers" were working on this account, this was ranging from guys who had access to the ticket, the owner and some random "workers". See screenshots below.

I went to join the discord to see any progress or updates, and I finally got one! One that said my HCIM died to another workers "PC freez". They basically told me tough luck, ahh risky job ahhh blah blah. They knew the risk and I told them multiple times to do only safe activities and quests where there was no risk.

They offered to finish the normal IM to barrow gloves, which isn't what I want. I requested payment of the value of the account + the $100 back which is in total $200. They declined and said GL make a report.

Essentially, they're freerolling customers by taking HCIM jobs, dying, not offering a refund or any sort of funds back and essentially saying ahh bummer you knew the risk? That doesn't seem right but maybe I'm wrong here?


TLDR:
1) Asked to do safe activities on a HCIM. They didn't.
2) Started with 1 worker on the account who promised all sorts of things and eventually acc was passed between multiple workers.
3) Account dies due to "comp freez" and they basically said tough luck
4) No TOS accepted at any point.
5) Asks for updates, isn't given anything but "43 pray got" after 3-4 days.
6) User was told to do safe activities but basically says he went into wild for runes? He also claimed he had "multiple mains with 5b risk" protecting him? HUH? LOL
7) Multiple users filtering through a single account puts any account at risk and they went through 3+ workers on one single account for a small job.
8) Users changed TOS AFTER ban was done to say "Not responsible for HCIM deaths" although when I agreed to the service I was given reassurance that if acc died they'd pay my money back/or level the account back.
Here: Screenshot - 70ab01cc8bb83798aa748756c90d03ea - Gyazo
9) Charged additional "expensive" price because they have to rebuild acc or refund money if death, but once it died this no longer was the case?
Screenshot - 9c87e6169b65b5fa393a65234b91193f - Gyazo


Supporting screenshots:
Screenshot - 866eb66a08a10a5f1e4580b11c125122 - Gyazo
Screenshot - 6c37d0c0c54a999f10911e033faf55c6 - Gyazo
Screenshot - 46897b91c957d3cf77d0c108d9f47ccf - Gyazo
Screenshot - 2c0d01b3ad97e3f226821df72aeabb53 - Gyazo
Screenshot - acdded37ecc76b0047fac7d6d0bf593b - Gyazo


Worker claiming he had ppl with 5b+ risk protecting it? Why protect something when I requested safe activities?

Clearly a lie.
Screenshot - 5e59f99126815e05483437599ac5f219 - Gyazo

Also this user started by doing the work on the acc, then it went to like 6-7 different workers?


Entire thing just seems poorly executed and if I'm in the wrong, sure, I'll eat the loss but it seems like a bad idea to allow a "company" to run their services this way. I've dealt with 20+ service providers, primarily venezuelan service providers and these guys are by far the worst company I've dealt with in terms of doing ANYTHING I've requested.


Edit:
Pharo also added to their TOS today which directly relates to the death of my account.
Screenshot - b9c7530659f24031b965fa59ceb295c7 - Gyazo

Please request edit logs etc


Additional edit info:


Screenshot - 70ab01cc8bb83798aa748756c90d03ea - Gyazo

User claims "Job is expensive because if we die, we pay money or get your stats back"

What happened to that?

Instead they edited TOS to make it not their responsibility AFTER they died.

I was charged additional funds and "expensive" price because they promised this if they died

Screenshot - 9c87e6169b65b5fa393a65234b91193f - Gyazo

Above is also proof of them saying they'll only do "safe" jobs.

Thanks,
Wellness

 

Also,

When I mentioned I'll be making a report, owner attempted to close the ticket and said "we will meet at Sythe".

Suspect at the least

Screenshot - 10534e36b7aea6d5641b90151c15ee82 - Gyazo

Here is their TOS, which at no point was I made aware of by any users or workers or owners.

Therefore, I was never able to accept it.

Screenshot - 0c3a5f44024660932f2cc0c1e359af5a - Gyazo

I also just recieved info that Pharo changed their TOS today to reflect the part which says "NOT RESPONSBILE FOR HCIM DEATHS"

Proof below
Screenshot - b9c7530659f24031b965fa59ceb295c7 - Gyazo

Staff, please request them to show the edit log for this. I didn't even know of the TOS, but was made aware from an outside source that the change was done after my acc died.

Another thing done to show how shady these guys really are.

Additional info..

Screenshot - 70ab01cc8bb83798aa748756c90d03ea - Gyazo

User claims "Job is expensive because if we die, we pay money or get your stats back"

What happened to that?

Instead they edited TOS to make it not their responsibility AFTER they died.

I was charged additional funds and "expensive" price because they promised this if they died

Screenshot - 9c87e6169b65b5fa393a65234b91193f - Gyazo

Above is also proof of them saying they'll only do "safe" jobs.

I'm also now banned from their discord server lol.

 

Not my place to say but you are lying regarding the not accepting TOS. You literally have to tick the box agreeing to the TOS to enter the server to then proceed to book any services. Don't lie on your reports.

Ban me or mute me if you must but have people lying to try and get what they want.

Never once did this happen. I was made a ticket and never once saw or accepted their TOS.

Mods can confirm this by checking logs, thanks for your assumption though!

You also want to discuss lying? They changed their TOS after THE account was dead to deflect any responsibilities for HCIM deaths. Even if what you're saying is the truth, there was nothing regarding HCIM deaths or anything related to it until AFTER my HCIM died.

I'm not doing this for the refund, any funds refunded can go straight to community fund. I'm doing this to remove a POS, lying, deceptive service that surely will take advantage of users with much less "reputation" because they can get away with it.

 

More info about this sketchy service:
Screenshot - 7985bdbaca9db6d1b9e0e817345c6d4e - Gyazo

 

[Pharos service]

still waiting any mention from any mod to reply btw
but i have alot of things to show log screens over 50 and over 1000 word so i want good space

 

still waiting any mention from any mod to reply btw
but i have alot of things to show log screens over 50 and over 1000 word so i want good space

Hello, please show me the transcript of the ticket or add me to the ticket.

 

Alright, this has become quite a lengthy report with multiple accusations. I will try go by each allegation.

1) Asked to do safe activities on a HCIM. They didn't.

You did indeed. They did however mention that it's risky nonetheless. S3 Leaders on Discord said the following ''what i can promiss but risk will be on both sides which mean i wont make the dieing risk on our worker but i will give the account to the best worker here so the biggest chance is not dieing''. I can interpret this in multiple ways, S3 said that the risk will be on both sides but also said the risk wouldn't be on their worker. Next, Zazo said the following: https://i.imgur.com/MBurpwb.png + https://i.imgur.com/sIpY37O.png
I don't see any clear agreement. You were under the impression they would only do safe stuff to eliminate any risks, they were under the impression they would do save stuff yet not be liable for dying.

2) Started with 1 worker on the account who promised all sorts of things and eventually acc was passed between multiple workers.

I don't see you mention anywhere in the ticket that you're unhappy with multiple workers on your account. It's not against Sythe rules or sectional rules to use more than one worker per account.

4) No TOS accepted at any point.

The ToS were edited two days ago. Your ticket was made about 3 weeks ago.
However, the very first message of the ticket is the ticket bot welcoming Wellness: https://i.imgur.com/onq7raS.png
When making a ticket, you get the following message: https://i.imgur.com/IltkI2v.png
This message has not been edited and was posted March 29th. I do believe you agreed to their ToS, although it will be hard to proof what was changed in their ToS in their recent edit.

6) User was told to do safe activities but basically says he went into wild for runes? He also claimed he had "multiple mains with 5b risk" protecting him? HUH? LOL

I agree this is not a safe way to do such a service.

9) Charged additional "expensive" price because they have to rebuild acc or refund money if death, but once it died this no longer was the case?
Screenshot - 9c87e6169b65b5fa393a65234b91193f - Gyazo

I do see they mentioned charging a higher price for HCIM, although it isn't very clear if they went ahead with this or not. You mentioned they should take the safe way and they mentioned they would go with a good worker instead of taking HCIM liability.
Zazo mentioned those two options here: https://i.imgur.com/7Y3unrw.png
At the looks of it, you got charged regular ironman prices indicating that's the route y'all took.

Mods can confirm this by checking logs, thanks for your assumption though!

Already addressed this in my reply to your point 4. I did check the logs but unfortunately it doesn't save them that long back.

More info about this sketchy service:
Screenshot - 7985bdbaca9db6d1b9e0e817345c6d4e - Gyazo

@Pharos service I'm not sure if this is true but it if this was, it seems it's no longer the case. I highly recommend having customers PM their account info to the worker directly.


If there is anything else either of you would like to add, please feel free to do so.

 

[Pharos service]

Alright, this has become quite a lengthy report with multiple accusations. I will try go by each allegation.

You did indeed. They did however mention that it's risky nonetheless. S3 Leaders on Discord said the following ''what i can promiss but risk will be on both sides which mean i wont make the dieing risk on our worker but i will give the account to the best worker here so the biggest chance is not dieing''. I can interpret this in multiple ways, S3 said that the risk will be on both sides but also said the risk wouldn't be on their worker. Next, Zazo said the following: https://i.imgur.com/MBurpwb.png + https://i.imgur.com/sIpY37O.png
I don't see any clear agreement. You were under the impression they would only do safe stuff to eliminate any risks, they were under the impression they would do save stuff yet not be liable for dying.


I don't see you mention anywhere in the ticket that you're unhappy with multiple workers on your account. It's not against Sythe rules or sectional rules to use more than one worker per account.


The ToS were edited two days ago. Your ticket was made about 3 weeks ago.
However, the very first message of the ticket is the ticket bot welcoming Wellness: https://i.imgur.com/onq7raS.png
When making a ticket, you get the following message: https://i.imgur.com/IltkI2v.png
This message has not been edited and was posted March 29th. I do believe you agreed to their ToS, although it will be hard to proof what was changed in their ToS in their recent edit.


I agree this is not a safe way to do such a service.


I do see they mentioned charging a higher price for HCIM, although it isn't very clear if they went ahead with this or not. You mentioned they should take the safe way and they mentioned they would go with a good worker instead of taking HCIM liability.
Zazo mentioned those two options here: https://i.imgur.com/7Y3unrw.png
At the looks of it, you got charged regular ironman prices indicating that's the route y'all took.


Already addressed this in my reply to your point 4. I did check the logs but unfortunately it doesn't save them that long back.


@Pharos service I'm not sure if this is true but it if this was, it seems it's no longer the case. I highly recommend having customers PM their account info to the worker directly.


If there is anything else either of you would like to add, please feel free to do so.

i have alot like
we have a secure ways to protect our custmers and thier tickets so only the once or in the ticket can see the ticket and for the custmers information it is with workeres only as it is top level of security

i have alot like
we have a secure ways to protect our custmers and thier tickets so only the once or in the ticket can see the ticket and for the custmers information it is with workeres only as it is top level of security

we have fixed some of misspelling and for the part hcim we havent touched it and all our cutmers already know about it too long time ago

we have fixed some of misspelling and for the part hcim we havent touched it and all our cutmers already know about it too longe time ago

we have already passed the safe activites and even reached to the left hard and risky quests like dt mm1 and already informed him and gave him updates in the ticktes with screenshots if needed zora already in dat ticket and he said continuo

 

Alright, this has become quite a lengthy report with multiple accusations. I will try go by each allegation.

You did indeed. They did however mention that it's risky nonetheless. S3 Leaders on Discord said the following ''what i can promiss but risk will be on both sides which mean i wont make the dieing risk on our worker but i will give the account to the best worker here so the biggest chance is not dieing''. I can interpret this in multiple ways, S3 said that the risk will be on both sides but also said the risk wouldn't be on their worker. Next, Zazo said the following: https://i.imgur.com/MBurpwb.png + https://i.imgur.com/sIpY37O.png
I don't see any clear agreement. You were under the impression they would only do safe stuff to eliminate any risks, they were under the impression they would do save stuff yet not be liable for dying.


I don't see you mention anywhere in the ticket that you're unhappy with multiple workers on your account. It's not against Sythe rules or sectional rules to use more than one worker per account.


The ToS were edited two days ago. Your ticket was made about 3 weeks ago.
However, the very first message of the ticket is the ticket bot welcoming Wellness: https://i.imgur.com/onq7raS.png
When making a ticket, you get the following message: https://i.imgur.com/IltkI2v.png
This message has not been edited and was posted March 29th. I do believe you agreed to their ToS, although it will be hard to proof what was changed in their ToS in their recent edit.


I agree this is not a safe way to do such a service.


I do see they mentioned charging a higher price for HCIM, although it isn't very clear if they went ahead with this or not. You mentioned they should take the safe way and they mentioned they would go with a good worker instead of taking HCIM liability.
Zazo mentioned those two options here: https://i.imgur.com/7Y3unrw.png
At the looks of it, you got charged regular ironman prices indicating that's the route y'all took.


Already addressed this in my reply to your point 4. I did check the logs but unfortunately it doesn't save them that long back.


@Pharos service I'm not sure if this is true but it if this was, it seems it's no longer the case. I highly recommend having customers PM their account info to the worker directly.


If there is anything else either of you would like to add, please feel free to do so.

Only thing to add is that I actually didn't join the ticket myself afaik. Zazo actually made the ticket both times, initially he overode and made it himself and oddly enough I was removed from that ticket on 6/2.

Again on 6/2, I messaged him asking why my ticket was gone/kicked and he made a new one and added me the same way he did previously.

Screenshot - 9880fac13b082118445dc8d4ef458590 - Gyazo
Screenshot - e0befc9e1beecb688bff6ef1d91cbe61 - Gyazo


Also, Zazo mentions "updates". You can view the ticket yourself, I asked for updates multiple times and was rarely given any. They charged me "ironman method" but continued to do high risk stuff like entering the wildy etc.

He claims MM1/DT is "high risk" when an account has 1) defense and 2) 43 prayer but for any service provider who has a reputation, these tasks and jobs are extremely easy. Yet he claims these methods are "high risk" but decides to enter the wildy for cash when I offered mutliple safe methods instead? Sure, its possible to die. It's also possible that a pig flys, picks up his PC, drops the PC while he is attacking a man and die from that method. I'd say both are pretty similar in "chances" for a high quality service provider who has done (hundreds of jobs). But hey, knock on me for allowing a "service" that considers these two quests "extreme risk" to even get on the account in the first place.


Overall, it seems extremely predatory to allow a company to do a job, have the ability to just die and assume zero responsibility.

If so, why would anyone need to scam anymore? They can just start a HCIM service, edit their TOS when the HCIM dies and assume zero reasonability and keep any funds they got for training the account.

"sry comp freez"

 

[Pharos service]

is not true cuz anyone open ticket its welcome the only person him self who open the ticket like this imgur.com
plus we said we going for wilderness for some runes and i have screenshot and i hope mods can close this asap cuz he not saying the truth anyway and its waste time for everyone
imgur.com
imgur.com
imgur.com
@Zora

 

[Pharos service]

imgur.com

imgur.com

can u guys check that he joined 6/2/22 and last update was 6/1/22 so he leftthe server this day we were asking for money cuz he not paying b4 we do the service becouse he pmed us on sythe and we got the pm also
imgur.com
also we were updating him daily or each 2 days cuz u said u are invactive and also(he said do whatever u want guys and just tell me with screens after u finish and total and i will pay)
@Zora

 

[Pharos service]

also we asked him why u left after 1 day and screens here
imgur.com
imgur.com
and i told him to pm me at sythe if he is or not becouse i was feel that he is tricking us and will do something bad like this
Imgur: The magic of the Internet

 

also we asked him why u left after 1 day and screens here
imgur.com
imgur.com
and i told him to pm me at sythe if he is or not becouse i was feel that he is tricking us and will do something bad like this
Imgur: The magic of the Internet

Yes Pharo. I'd leave the server mid service to attempt to scam $12 in services provided.

I'd also risk 700+ vouches because I wanted to trick Pharo Services while they had access to my account/details etc.

That seems much more likely than you pulling a fast one by kicking me from the server and forcing a rejoin for whatever sneaky reason.

 

[Pharos service]

And on this to accuse Screenshot - 7985bdbaca9db6d1b9e0e817345c6d4e - Gyazo
i want him to show us the custmer name or get him here becouse is not true and no one of our custmers have any proplem with us everyone is happy and like us very much
and if somoene from our custmer have any proplem with us he could come here and report us like him and thx

 

Thank you both for replying.

I've further reviewed the case and came to the following conclusion:
- @Wellness was put in a ticket at some point so we can not confirm if he accepted their ToS. The ToS were also edited June 15th so we can not know if the line about HCIM liability was there before or not.
- @Pharos service was hired and paid to do a service containing safe methods only. Certain content would not be done as it was not deemed safe. However, going into the Wilderness (having protection or not) is by no means considered a safe activity and is quite reckless. Because of this, Pharaos Service did not hold up their part of the bargain. A total of $161.40 was spent on services and all of it will be owed to Wellness.
- The account started with certain stats. Wellness had this made with other workers but considering the money he spent on it and how much he can sell the now ironman for, he would likely profit and if not at least break-even. Wellness has agreed to be fine with this. I will therefore not make you pay anything in addition here @Pharos service

A total of $161.40 is owed and Wellness has requested this to be sent to the community repayment fund.
Please send no less than $161.40 to the wallet below. There is more info regarding the community repayment in this quote below as well.

Our repayment wallet holds BTC and can be found here: bc1qcz7qfw8frr8cantsx3yv9g23u7hj473tc9p7c9. All funds sent to this wallet are recorded here, and all funds distributed from this wallet are recorded here. At the time of this post's last update we also have an additional $8047 to distribute for repayment as well.

@Pharos service please let this be a lesson. Also, please give this thread a read to better understand our rules regarding Terms of Service: A Guide to Terms of Service (ToS)

 

[Pharos service]

Thank you both for replying.

I've further reviewed the case and came to the following conclusion:
- @Wellness was put in a ticket at some point so we can not confirm if he accepted their ToS. The ToS were also edited June 15th so we can not know if the line about HCIM liability was there before or not.
- @Pharos service was hired and paid to do a service containing safe methods only. Certain content would not be done as it was not seemed safe. However, going into the Wilderness (having protection or not) is by no means considered a safe activity and is quite reckless. Because of this, Pharaos Service did not hold up their part of the bargain. A total of $161.40 was spent on services and all of it will be owed to Wellness.
- The account started with certain stats. Wellness had this made with other workers but considering the money he spent on it and how much he can sell the now ironman for, he would likely profit and if not at least break-even. Wellness has agreed to be fine with this. I will therefore not make you pay anything in addition here @Pharos service

A total of $161.40 is owed and Wellness has requested this to be sent to the community repayment fund.
Please send no less than $161.40 to the wallet below. There is more info regarding the community repayment in this quote below as well.


@Pharos service please let this be a lesson. Also, please give this thread a read to better understand our rules regarding Terms of Service: A Guide to Terms of Service (ToS)

fair enough tyvm

 

[Pharos service]

 

@Pharos service Thank you, the money has been received and noted here: Funds sent to/from community repayment

Also thank you for the cooperation in this report. Please make sure to make a proper agreement for future (hardcore) ironman jobs. We typically side with what was agreed upon before the order started.

Finally, please note that this situation could've been prevented if the worker did not enter the wilderness. This could be considered bad trading practices which warrants a TWC. I will not apply one in here but next time staff might be less lenient.

@Wellness thank you for having it sent to the Community Repayment