My side of the story

I sold an acc to user 'Blood' about 3 weeks back for 475M 07gp.

Terms and conditions included I take on a guarantee to recover him the acc or refund him, should anything happen.

4 days later, he contacted me that the account had gotten locked. I was at that time speaking to Charlotte and dm'd her about a few concerns I had (The buyer had bought multiple accounts on sythe, all of which were locked at a later point in time - some even FOURTY FIVE DAYS later).

I also had discovered he had off-site blackhat activities over at HF. I promptly made a report on both of these things. However here are 2 mistakes I made: Personally being convinced my report was good enough that it would prove my point and I would be allowed to donate to the scammed users' fund (as I originally proposed), I blocked the buyer on Discord. Yes, this was a mistake, I handled this wrong.

The other mistake I made was originally saying that if donating to the scammed users' fund wasn't an option, just ban me over it (I did this because I was so completely my convinced that my report on the buyer proved beyond doubt what I was trying to prove).

The buyer later made a report on me - I was still discussing this whole issue with Charlotte, who said: Screenshot - 8f78d9d2acad1dbf243ec29e36338f1c - Gyazo (For the sake of transparency, NOTE: Charlotte wanted me to escrow the 475m to her until this whole case was going to be solved, which I denied, since the account could've still gotten banned from whatever he'd done on it while it was under his control).

This meant Charlotte was going to review my report.

Fast forward 4 days, Charlotte gave me this response:

Screenshot - 947846321bd78e6c39adb4a95327b472 - Gyazo

I wasn't online for a couple of days, dm'd Charlotte as soon as I was on next time:

Screenshot - cd25da6f365facbf3e7bb2db878f5f79 - Gyazo

This is the very same day we had the 3 way conversation with blood and Charlotte and Charlotte ultimately decided in the 3 days' timespan (while I wasn't around) that the account return would no longer be an acceptable option, according to her, because: We had both mutually lost trust and respect for each other an it would be simpler, I could just resell I would take no loss.

I tried to explain Charlotte on multiple occasions that I had sold the gold from the acc sale to Divica - me buying back the gold already gives me a massive loss, not to mention the depreciation of my acc's value due to it having been flagged from this sale.

I told Charlotte I don't agree, I would ask Shin to review this case for me. This left the case in a stalemate for days, until Video decided to chime in.

I don't want to say a lot about Video, not much to say here, other than completely unprofessional:

Screenshot - 85f8b7922a366bddecad1639cdc31a94 - Gyazo

He also confirmed it's a refund or ban. I dm'd video feel free to ban and his response CLEARLY proves he didn't have half a clue about the whole case. Me keeping the money AND the account was NEVER EVER an intent of mine, from the very beginning, I offered to donate to the fund.

But regardless of all these things, I went ahead and told Video if the buyer answered me why the acc's password was 'dasdas' when he got it locked and how he got all accs he bought on sythe locked (some 45 days later) and to also elaborate that as someone who had bought a Runescape PW cracker before (proven in my report) why would he set the pw to something as simple as dasdas afte5r spending 475m 07 on it. Surely someone who wants to crack pw's also knows what brute forcing and password strength are?

Video posted on the thread: I owe money, I have no conditions to set and then I was promptly banned.

The end.

 

I was never given a good reason as to why you were not allowed to return the account (given you were forced to recover/unlock it in the first place) and still don't see why that isn't the case. I'd like to hear from @video @Charlotte.

Also, please link all the reports in an additional dispute so they may be thoroughly reviewed.

Thank you.

 

Reporting kfjjjdst - Account recovered - his report
Reporting Blood [part 1 - blackhat] - my BH report which proves him buying DB leaks and PW cracker (which he claimed was his step bro lol)
Reporting Blood [Part 2 - Account] - explanation as to why I didn't want to return the acc originally.

My communication on the forum regarding this case was mainly through DMs with Charlotte, Video and Shin.

Even in the end, I tried to cooperate, gave Video the proposition that if the buyer can explain me these things I will refund in full, Video just decided to ignore me.

Screenshot - e36287c9fd9d5e7657722be3b482ebf0 - Gyazo

I'm not sure why both Video and Charlotte feel I wasn't cooperative, other than saying in the beginning that I didn't intend on reimbursing him any way (which I agree was a rushed and unnecessary post - keep in mind I did this with a pending report I felt was enough to prove why I didn't want to reimburse), I've been very open to trying to resolve this issue. I simply don't agree that because my original reports took so long to be reviewed, now the buyer gets to decide what he wants.

On the other hand the buyer has been a complete asshole throughout, nagging me 24/7, being demanding and lying about everything (he even lied I recovered the account from him lol).

 

You decided you weren't going to return the account to him or refund him because you thought he was a scammer. I entertained the idea briefly while looking into his previous purchases as well and ultimately the circumstantial evidence was not enough but your stance did not change.

cont. from above.

You wanted a new TOS - I said you'd need to speak with Blood b/c we can't honor a post-sale TOS unless both parties agree to said TOS. I made it clear it was a return or refund. You didn't want to do either.

I mention the refund at this point because you mentioned a potential refund previously but it was decided you did not want to do that unless there was a hold to see if the account got banned first (again, another decision that isn't up to you but I was willing to escrow the money anyway to see what happened but no money was given for escrow so this went out the window as well).

Yes, because you weren't willing to refund him or return the account. Being around or not, you made it clear you thought this user was a threat/scammer and that you had no intent for him to receive the account or the money. This was not up to you.

I also told you that you would not be responsible for margins or any other sale-related costs/losses. Not to mention if you refunded the gold for the account, Blood was willing to let you keep the gold on the account as well which would have helped with any margins.

I told you that you could bring it to Shin. You did. I talked to Shin about it. Nothing changed. Eventually days went by and nothing happened from Shin's end so video decided to input. Which he is allowed to do. Just because he ended up taking the same stance as I in the end does not mean he is wrong by any standard. It just means you don't agree.

When Shin and I were talking about this case originally, he made it very obvious HE didn't know the full story. So don't go pointing fingers like that when you're the one who is trying to pick which Admin you want to take over the case you made very difficult to handle in the first place.

Again, this is another condition you were trying to make up when it was as simple as: Return the account or money. You did neither. It was your way or the highway. You aren't the mod here. I said the reports on Blood were all invalid thus he is entitled to one of the two ways of refund - you did neither in the end.

----
I'd like to note that the biggest reason I turned away from the return-account aspect of this report is because you had many opportunities to refund, but chose not to - had you chosen you did not want to return the account (or vice versa).

tldr: You tried to set conditions and decide how to move forward. You dragged this out. Now you're wanting another Admin to take over because you don't agree. You should have refunded, put the money in escrow, or returned the account. You didn't.

 

Also, note: The original report was reported as a recovery but it was quickly understood that it was not you recovering the account. He didn't lie.

 

I will address the other things later, but Charlotte, do you have a memory malfunction?

He contacted me that he got the account locked, then casually reported me 2 days later saying I recovered the account. Are you actually kidding me at this point?

 

Charlotte, so many inaccuracies I don't even know where to begin.

"You decided you weren't going to return the account to him or refund him because you thought he was a scammer. I entertained the idea briefly while looking into his previous purchases as well and ultimately the circumstantial evidence was not enough but your stance did not change."

Yes, I already said. This was a mistake, I clearly explained why I did this. This is all you have been grabbing on to so hard to side with blood. However as soon as you looked into it (which did take an eternity btw) I offered to return the acct.

"You wanted a new TOS - I said you'd need to speak with Blood b/c we can't honor a post-sale TOS unless both parties agree to said TOS. I made it clear it was a return or refund. You didn't want to do either.

I mention the refund at this point because you mentioned a potential refund previously but it was decided you did not want to do that unless there was a hold to see if the account got banned first (again, another decision that isn't up to you but I was willing to escrow the money anyway to see what happened but no money was given for escrow so this went out the window as well)."

What? A hold isn't my decision? I can't decide whether you are joking or are stupid at this point. Say I refund him, my acc gets banned, then what? I got screwed. Looking back, I'm actually happy I didn't escrow to you lol.

"Yes, because you weren't willing to refund him or return the account. Being around or not, you made it clear you thought this user was a threat/scammer and that you had no intent for him to receive the account or the money. This was not up to you."

Not true, as soon as you wrote to me that those were the 2 options (remember, you took about 1 week to review my original report on which I based my claim of not wanting to refund or return the acc ( and instead donate to the sythe users fund ), I offered to return the account.

Funny enough however, September 25 you write to me the two options are namely: return acc OR refund, on 29th I get on discord next, by that time you changed your mind and said only one option, refund. Care to elaborate what happened in those 3 days I wasn't even online?

Screenshot - e7ccecfda79ba69739e1061dc72e5a08 - Gyazo (the 28th sept msg was right before our 3-way discord convo w blood and you where you claimed account return wasn't possible)

"I also told you that you would not be responsible for margins or any other sale-related costs/losses. Not to mention if you refunded the gold for the account, Blood was willing to let you keep the gold on the account as well which would have helped with any margins."

Blood lied about how much was on the account and no you didn't by the way. You simply said refund, refund, refund, you lose nothing blah blah - when I tried to explain you that I WOULD INDEED lose, you said nah, you wouldn't.

"I told you that you could bring it to Shin. You did. I talked to Shin about it. Nothing changed. Eventually days went by and nothing happened from Shin's end so video decided to input. Which he is allowed to do. Just because he ended up taking the same stance as I in the end does not mean he is wrong by any standard. It just means you don't agree."

He could've at least taken the time to read about what happened though (he called me an asshole saying I wanted to keep both the money and the account - this wasn't even the case for even a single second, thus clearly showing he didn't even have half a fucking clue about the whole issue).

"When Shin and I were talking about this case originally, he made it very obvious HE didn't know the full story. So don't go pointing fingers like that when you're the one who is trying to pick which Admin you want to take over the case you made very difficult to handle in the first place."

Which part did he miss? Also, he is the head admin, I think I'm allowed to escalate a decision I don't agree with surely or I don't see what your problem is? Stop being butthurt over me not accepting the conclusion you came to.

 

OK, lets pull screen caps if you want to then. Back to the start.

Here you can see yourself already trying to decide for yourself how the report would go if he even reported you: https://gyazo.com/cd6e4564cb32dab112ff54bc0fbcaaceand Screenshot - 9fb82f4e3a2b31e80b9238229fef8c10 - Gyazo Sure, you're being reasonable here I guess - but I went to him and told him that this was not an account recovery, just a regular lock (which naturally would be treated as a location lock - though you insisted it meant more, and as I said, I wrongly entertained this).

Here you offer to donate the money but said you would not give back either if he were to leak in a report as previously shown: Screenshot - 4f5c93cd02ce25e40e142ac029b920ea - Gyazo

You blocked him on the 21st so he reported you. This is fair at this point. (Yes, I know you've mentioned this as your mistake - I am just listing a timeline). I DNT you because no resolution was made except the one you made yourself.

Here you say you will not refund to him: Screenshot - 62a280de705a63008255d9210b8ffc02 - Gyazo and reiterate in a formal report (the "Account" report from the 20th) about the circumstantial evidence and how he must be attempting to scam somebody.

Here you explain why: Screenshot - d0a218890163f07834a29bbdeef7b766 - Gyazo and you also show me this screenshot: Screenshot - f42ba4d70de4da369dd6d96f87895011 - Gyazo which shows another account seller saying that an account bought by Blood was locked.

At this point, you still won't be home for a day (the 22nd/Monday) and you say that he reported you for recovering even though it was a lock - but you blocked him, so he reported you.


Here you say that he tried to leak your email (he didn't) and that you would refund to the repayment system we have and you'd take the ban over repaying or returning the account to him: Screenshot - 71eb7f1673ccb01ac18976a194ae7e2a - Gyazo

Here you give me your theories about the account locks: Screenshot - 0c240cf1c4b0d708ddc463be7806f820 - Gyazo (ps: the believable reason the his accounts were being locked is because he has bought multiple from different countries)


Here is my reply to this: Screenshot - 19b494d17795654add7d23d297f1aeca - Gyazo - I mention some of the stuff I've said above, explain your DNT, I still entertain the circumstantial evidence because I was still waiting on other account sellers to communicate with me. If I have to say it for the 12th time I will, but this was my mistake from the very beginning. REGARDLESS of this, I say: "circumstantial evidence doesn't mean he doesn't get the accounts or money back, so sit tight, I'll look into it" as well as offering to pick the money up in the meantime while I sort the other reports (for your DNT to be removed).

After you show me the evidence about other account that were locked (one screenshot shown earlier of you PMing another seller) as well as linking me to the vouch thread here: Screenshot - d72879ecf4e9d5aa655b4971019237bc - Gyazo

This is what is said in reply: Screenshot - f78e378ecb3ae1d697604922e1ec69db - Gyazo

You already linked this but I'm showing this: Screenshot - fd05ea19d673446df1f65660556be334 - Gyazo because at this point, we had one other person telling us that the account was locked 45 days after purchase.

I then leave for class.

What's shown here: Screenshot - 8b860c974221d180de618d4d35359c62 - Gyazo, Screenshot - 41dc6438ad8615d452c5e4c5cd87f2f4 - Gyazo, and Screenshot - 1380e9b214d977e7196e552a2edd1cd7 - Gyazo: You're telling me how much money you received, the margins, the damages from this sale; I say that we can escrow the money to remove your DNT while we wait to see if anything happens to your account (I agreed to the $300 you suggested to account for margins but we were only going to account for damages had anything happened to the account. You agree to escrow, but you do not.

Pretty much right after you say this: Screenshot - 93369d4d82a287873139cc3d357f8ee1 - Gyazo because I guess you didn't understand that if no report was valid on Blood and nothing happened to your account, then the money would be returned to Blood if the account wasn't returned. You are still playing by your own rules.

Once again I mention that the circumstantial evidence is not enough here: Screenshot - e660bd771c43541b0315a30d837f10e1 - Gyazo

This was the agreed ToS: Screenshot - b5943991ea145a8b094acb0e3413fb0e - Gyazo



--- to be continued, I am a human who needs food

 

You ask me if we're going to come to a conclusion anytime soon but I say I still have to look further into the circumstantial evidence - the conclusion at this time was, by default, you were to return the account or money but you disagreed. So to entertain your circumstantial evidence, this would take time and information from two other sellers as well. That's not my fault in the least.

You ask why you're DNT & he isn't banned: Screenshot - b2f34ed778d9594b2f37798ec7ec2e4d - Gyazo

You get pretty impatient here - I had to go to class but you still jump the gun, you even say to ban you: Screenshot - a9cb576772880efc3edf306cd9149688 - Gyazo

I reiterate that you don't get to decide the outcome: Screenshot - 69970e85ece5e33d9d1a8fed49baa0e6 - Gyazo

Now we're looking around when you should be home.

You go back to why you won't be paying him but offer to pay towards our repayment system: Screenshot - c02ebc6877b37375d92cd88338d3cfc6 - Gyazo - but at this point, Blood is still innocent/is entitled either to the account returned or refund made. I offer to re-look at the black hat report but then ultimately close it after I do.

(Not for the first time) I mention that you can escrow the money while we wait to see what happens to your account: Screenshot - f66cf8de4c03ebcd3955822a77694304 - Gyazo (I didn't have to do this btw I was just being nice and there's no harm in waiting and at this time I don't think Blood had any objections - he just wanted the account or money back in the end)

I say I will check with another Admin about the circumstantial evidence which would mean he broke your ToS which would mean you don't have to return the account to him: Screenshot - 6e04990f0df65857d396e7fc26c45c0a - Gyazo

The Admin agrees that the circumstantial evidence is not enough.

We continue to the escrow again.

Idk how many times I've mentioned it at this point about which two options you had: Screenshot - 73aaf7444d0f4239382eb781c4ae3b41 - Gyazo - You ask about deducting the margins, I had already agreed to $300 previously and you mention $310 here - it's all the same in the end if we could even get you to escrow which you didn't.

You say to ban you in meantime, which I haven't any time you've asked: Screenshot - 39a4e6aedaddecb5e73e82a997b3b4df - Gyazo - I say it's not worth your time to be banned if you're so sure he's a piece of shit.

I play to a non-existent scenario to try to convince you to either refund or return the account: Screenshot - badeabc0bf076a969ca8c42d8ac99670 - Gyazo

YOU say you will take a week to decide what YOU want to do: Screenshot - 0c11c6faccd4a6a78aaa298ecc6d33b7 - Gyazo - this is NOT how we handle reports. YOU wanted the time to be taken, not me.

Two days later. You are now wanting to entertain a refund/return - but on your own terms again: Screenshot - 8e14a0ff7a997ed3ffdc93836f3fc230 - Gyazo which basically included voiding a part of your ToS which we aren't required to honor as it was not a part of the original agreed ToS.

I tell you that you can talk to Blood to see if you guys can come up with anything to agree on: Screenshot - 7bf42fe9d9088b687b7a35b5b13b2854 - Gyazo - I then mention the same day at some time that you should just refund him. Mind you, he originally just wanted the account returned but you took your sweet time and now he wanted a refund because of the hassle you've caused with wanting to decide the outcome for yourself - and when I kept saying no, you want to negotiate a return on your own terms, which again, I said no to unless Blood agreed.

(Also, for sake of time zones, none of these replies were a full day later for either of us - just how Discord logs it without time specification.)

Three days later. You want Blood to add you back after blocking him - you want to talk to him about the new terms: Screenshot - ea2da12cb3cf60490d128916bca8458c - Gyazo so I give you his Discord and you say thanks and presume to speak to him. I guess you guys couldn't agree;

You insult him again and ask about damages done: Screenshot - 5aa9ff2ba694192765b930890a3206da - Gyazo - I say: Screenshot - ddbe591d8c509b2f1575f2cf2be8fc7a - Gyazo and you continue to not cooperate by Sythe rules/terms.

On the 29th you ask if there's any update because you couldn't get a hold of Shin.

This is where our individual conversation ends.

 

Here's the group conversation which started on the 28th.

You continue to think you're the right in this scenario and say you're doing a favor by even discussing this: Screenshot - d6b660edb15acde30ee7e5d426eafc32 - Gyazo

You say he doesn't have the right to ask for the refund over the account: Screenshot - abb05c57da0bf5ca69d1b68ec1c6b985 - Gyazo - though I'd like to note here: (Reporting kfjjjdst - Account recovered) that he asked for the account back but you refused during this whole process. So of course he's asking for the refund at this point.

And it continues: Screenshot - deb7eee9ad7136fd52dc3ad4c6b1092b - Gyazo (you blocked him, what else would he think?)

You offer a full refund so as to see your account is not banned in the meantime: Screenshot - 96dded2a02bcd1dc518464e6bf36ab28 - Gyazo

You say October 21st is a good date for us to wait: Screenshot - c4f56d6fc91fd5abaad406213a2a73a2 - Gyazo

Somehow he decides to begin to agree if I am in control of the account in the meantime and your DNT remains until everything is cleared: Screenshot - 4b6b9bb7e8c1014a22857c0da25a04e8 - Gyazo - you agree.

He mentions the 9 day period and the possibility of you having done something on the account: Screenshot - 8f388a9f47791b271b54d7c76201ca45 - Gyazo

You guys are very uncooperative to EACH other at this point, but anyone would be because this was a cluster fuck & headache of a report: Screenshot - 6b4157b0a4bd2f673f7b9909cedc0f96 - Gyazo

You think a partial refund is in order IF you "agree" to do a refund: Screenshot - fc0c6a50c072dde533d45e6dce8b2da1 - Gyazo (300/475m)

I mention here that it's not an option and that I don't want control of the account: Screenshot - 21055023f8e4cda9d8f12a237d33115c - Gyazo

You make clear that you meant the refund portion was a goodwill gesture: Screenshot - 0afd2557b9df6785cb8f2db6bdd8e868 - Gyazo and that all you had to do was return the account instead.

Back to the partial refund: Screenshot - 07b5452f3bca9d1df7fa4bb7860c06e7 - Gyazo (275/475m)

You guys go back and forth and now the "offer" is at 250m: Screenshot - cd5acc3c7fb880a631ffb651d9ba32ce - Gyazo

I say that you can't decide to pay him less so you decide that you want to return the account instead: Screenshot - 81a8ca58767bbddcfcdba330cddd9d85 - Gyazo

I say that he wouldn't be able to trust any account sale then but he explains that other account sellers have been good in returning his accounts to him so it's not a matter of buying an account, but who he bought the account from: Screenshot - 709742ceb1e60565c1ce69c9744bd600 - Gyazo (and at this point it's very clear that that's very fair)

You mention account deprecation again. I say that we can hold the money to make sure the account is not banned but that the account itself is of the same value otherwise: Screenshot - b3598dd28d14c7c4e81dd744120d73f2 - Gyazo

I say here that you will not be responsible for margins: Screenshot - 947bdf0f8d5a6bf3462932f8cd6e70ee - Gyazo - I also say to get an agreed dollar amount so that we can work with the market to get the best possible deal in terms of what the total m would be: Screenshot - 34c72060e4cba7c62d249290e6479aea - Gyazo

Blood says he will take a refund for 450/475m: Screenshot - f818d3ff7a46aa1009e7cc0d0a295f4d - Gyazo

You continue to want to be paid for damages and then he can have the account back: Screenshot - 44c3e4441af01715868c1f3df1a3de72 - Gyazo

You guys can't agree. At this point you are going to get Shin involved. Conversation ends.

 

@video Idk if you have anything to input but you are welcome to - and @Shin feel free to read thru everything and get back to me.

 

This is not the first time we've tried to process a refund over a return.

From the uncooperative nature from the start, wanting to set your own terms, and add a new ToS if you did return the account, I think it's only fair to refund Blood instead. Blood was never found guilty for anything worthy of being banned and he was entitled to the account from the start. You didn't want to return it to him. Now you do? That's crap honestly. He bought the account on the 18th and it was locked on the 20th - tell me how there is depreciation of value. Tell me how he isn't entitled to a full refund. Any tarnish done to your rep was done by you alone. Return the account? Highly unfair when you wanted to change the terms of doing so and kept refusing from the start thru the whole time I was originally involved. Now that you're banned and still haven't gotten your way, NOW you want to return the account. Yeah, no. That's totally out of the question imo.

 

This situation was blown unnecessarily out of proportion by kfjjjdst from the beginning. It is mindboggling that a simple request to refund his buyer given what he put his buyer through is being met with this much resistance.

Kfjjjdst if you won't be refunding your buyer please don't post anything else. You do not get to make demands or claim to be the victim at this point