To all atheists:

Personally, I am not really religious. I'm agnostic at best and believe very little more than a higher power exists. Whether that power is good or bad...

However, I keep noticing people on here saying how stupid religion is, or how even it's very existence is offensive to society. I beg to disagree.

If for no other reason, it helps in this way:
If you live life as a Christian, for example, and follow all of the rules and whatnot of the religion, and it turns out there is no God, what have you lost? Nothing. You went through life being kind, helpful, and whatever else you're supposed to do, and in doing so were probably a pleasure to be around.. The advantages of there being a God are obvious - Heaven.

On the flip side, if there is no God, all things become ultimately permissible. There is absolutely no reason not to do every "bad" thing you can possibly do because beyond human consequences, there are none. If, however, there is a God after a lifestyle like that - you're fucked. If there isn't then you only managed to make life for those who came into contact with you miserable at best.

Thoughts?

 

I'll respond to this simply; being an Atheist doesn't make you a bad person, as you're implying.

I disagree, as cheating and lying gets you ahead of all the others living "good lives."

Look at this site, based off of cheating. Look at the result, we get farther ahead of those who play it fair.

 

Seems you have just regurgitated Pascal's Wager in a less amusing form. Moreover, as Richard Dawkins has correctly pointed out, you don't need a religion to have morals, and neither does having a religion ensure that you do.

 

That's what that was from! I had the basic concept in my head but could not remember the name of it. However, I'm not saying being an atheist makes you a bad person at all. But, it gives no reason to be a good person. I'm all for cheating and lieing, but in the grand scheme of things I think there probably will be consequences to my actions.
Christians are far from perfect, but they have moral guidelines that they're expected to live by. Without them being laid out for you in a sense, you have no reason to do right or wrong, just whichever it is that benefits you the most at that time.

 

Here is a suggestion, if you don't like how people talk about religion, don't post about it. Obviously you will get replies and you state your beliefs and they state theirs. Then it becomes a flame war because of personal beliefs. Me? I believe in the devil before I believe in god. Am I evil or does that make me a bad person? No, I've just seen way more bad in the world then good, at least in my eyes. I've also never had any of my prayers answered, not one. I stopped having faith in god as a young child. Yet, I don't believe in heaven or hell and no I don't believe in the devil. What I meant was If I could be convinced into believing in one, I'd believe there is a devil before a "just and forgiving god." Although, I do believe there is a higher power, but not what humans make it out to be.

 

It seems to me you're trying to imply that being an Athiest is a negative thing, and being religeous is good. Personally, I was raised to be a Christian, but I'm a logical person and logically, it's all repulsive. All, being all religeons with these 'Gods.' Notice, gods existed in ancient times with no technology whatsoever to prove that people had holy/unholy powers? For example, the Christian god is supposed to be someone always watching down on us, and if we don't follow 10 commandments, that is a terrible sin.

I find it absolutely rediculous one would choose to live their life based on something so long ago, with no scientific evidence other than to just believe. I'm not the greatest at arguing about points, but I'm sure people will understand what I mean here....

Also, religeon is one of the leading cause for alot of war and conflict between people/countries. If there was no religeon, and everyone lived based on being taught good things, and not forced to not do something because a god said so, the world would be a better place. Religeon is like a law, if you don't follow it, you'll end up in a bad place.

Lmao.

 

Its existence IS offensive to society. We are a very advanced race, advancing every day... yet we cling to ancient beliefs with absolutely no grounds for reasoning. When questioned, religion replies with the age-old answer of "you just have to believe"... I'm sorry, but an idea is not intelligent if there's absolutely no scientific backing for it.

Sure, Christianity does have some nice standards to uphold civility. However, these are easily replaced with the teachings of rational people. "If you're bad, I'm going to smack you upside the head and you'll hate it. If you're good, I'll give you a treat".

Let's use dogs as an example. They live without any religious beliefs whatsoever. There's good dogs, and then there's really mean/bad dogs. The good dogs are good dogs because they were trained right, weren't abused, grew up with love and taught right from wrong. The bad dogs were pushed, abused, neglected, etc etc etc. Humans are the same in this manner, that if a person has a horrible upbringing and do not learn right from wrong... their chances of having a positive influence on society is drastically lower.

We're a little more complex psychologically, but my point being that we do not need religion/god as a guideline, we just need a rational understanding and good teachings from those who create and protect us.

I used to function 'in the grand scheme of things' and what I've found is that a religious person is a hypocrite, whereas a non-religious person is honest. Yes, there are human consequences, and that's what determines my actions. I have this life, and this life only. Why on Earth would I waste it or risk losing it?

Moreso, I've been taught that being nice to people and helping others will get you more than being mean or hurting others. I've also been shown that stealing and lying are not fun when they happen to you, and so I don't steal or lie. I value my life, naturally, so I wouldn't want anyone to kill me... so I'm not going to kill anyone. And most importantly, while I may disagree with the reasoning behind some laws, I value my freedom enough to abide by the random societal restrictions.

All of that is done without having one ounce of a belief in anything. I don't do the things I do in an attempt to gain a reward, I do it so I may enjoy my life in peace. I don't have ulterior motives, whereas most religious people... you have to question if they're helping you because they WANT to or because they want points in the afterlife. When I help someone, I do it because I want to, and because I know I would want someone to help me... not to get into the pearly gates.

Now, there are some religious people that are in fact like me... and they do it just out of the kindness of their hearts... But those people do it not because of religion, but because of the way they were taught apart from religion. Religion was just something they were forced to believe in =/.

To conclude; Religion is unnecessary, as people can be taught morals and kindness without being offered an eternal reward or punishment for the opposite. There are always going to be bad apples, as long as there are bad teachers. No matter how good the religion, if your upbringing teaches you evil... you're not going to behave to those standards.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Environmental_psychology

 

Being an aitheist stands for helping each other out, instead of thinking that a god will do that for us.
= taking care of things with our own hands, instead of praying and hoping god does so.

So in other words, Atheists make a diferrance.

 

Well that's a lot of stereotyping..

We don't judge you, why judge us?

A factual stereotype - all religious people (i've met) are extremely rude, coming to my door solicitation with their churches / practices / what you guys do as you don't have much else with your life, no offense of course.

 

I don't like people like that either. Like I said I want people to be able to live the way they want to live. I guess what drove me to post that was a post by Deacon Frost that said something about religion being bad for the human race, plain and simple. From what I have experienced with my life so far, Atheists seem to think I am an idiot and am below them. Actually, my freshman year in high school a teacher gave an entire speech about why people who are religious are idiots and are destroying the human race.I have the original paper he sent to all of us (meaning my schoolmates) VIA email after our school meeting, but here is his email's body:

That was not anything bad, but this is what was hidden from view unless you highlighted over the text with your mouse...

THAT is what really gets me mad, I hope you see my point and forgive my frustration =)

If you want I can post the entire speech, but it is a little long for a post...

 

A fascinating concept, especially with the dogs. But other than a "treat" you have no reason to do what is considered good. There would be no implications beyond those of this world, so what's to stop you from murder?

Yet, being religious doesn't?

Read the posts dumb ass. 'We' is irrelevant because I blatantly stated I'm not religious. No one is judging. If anything, I'm playing much more of a devil's advocate. By doing so, I'm educating myself on both the social and religious views of this community. Read before posting, thank you.

 

I did read the OP, you said you weren't religious.. there are OTHER people posting in your thread, dumb ass.

 

Im sorry to say to the original poster, but your entire topic on what stops people from doing bad is based on whether or not there's an afterlife. You're arguing for something that one believes exist; not something that is proven to exist.

You're speaking pure hypothetically. Its all what if. Nothing to hold your argument.

You seem to be more upset about people stating religion being unnecessary to society than anything. Which it is. Instead of babbling about useless topic; research and analyze as much as you can about society, religions, and morality. You'd see how religious people are truly hypocrites and lie even to themselves.

If you strip off all the bullshit and attempt to understand what we can of how systems and other shit came into being you'll see the harsh truth.


Its funny that if not most, all religious people think Atheists as enemies because we show them their flaws.

 

I believe you missed the point. 'Ultimate' consequences are created by people who assume potential for the afterlife. I know that my life now is all that I have, my ultimate consequence is to lose that life. I don't need an eternal punishment for my sins to threaten me... all I need is the risk of being killed/etc.

What stops me from doing that to others is so they don't do it to me... that's it.

 

From all of my research and deep thought I've come to the conclusion there are no consequences to your actions beyond life. When you die your dead and if you die now it wouldn't matter because there's no thinking when your dead.
There's a fear of dieing but once your dead there's no regret.

 

Think of it this way: Just under 2,500 years ago people honestly believed in Zeus. What do you think people will think of Jesus in 2,500 years?

Christianity has its uses. It keeps people in place. It is based on imaginary facts, making it impossible to prove. The problem arises when the bubble of delusion affects society, when it limits it so to speak. Did you know that the Pope discourages, even forbids the use of condoms?

That's something to think about.

 

Yes, of course I know that lol do you know why? Because according to the Catholic church, you should only have sex to concieve.. and not for pleasure. Do you expect them to change their teachings just because people are much more relaxed about sex nowadays?
I couldn't see it happening, it would be a total farce of a religion if they could ammend such significant rules like that.

Btw, im not religious.. but in saying that, I do think Christianity has its benefits and brings out the good in people.. and I definately wouldn't call anyone stupid for their faith. The real stupid people are the narrow minded idiots who can't see that some people need something to hang on to for their own sake/sanity or just for closure on losing a loved one.

 

That is exactly my point. Christianity has both its uses, and its flaws. I completely agree with you that taking a faithful person as a fool makes you a fool yourself. But so does imposing your faith on others. As long as our society functions, there will be both atheists and religious people. They are made for one another. I also feel that the flaws of the church are at the same time its important boundaries. With no heaven or hell, who could justify morale? What you should realise is that whether or not God exists, for the time being, it doesn't matter. As long as we can live in harmony, religion has filled its cause.

 

See, the thing is.. living in modern Ireland, I can see that the religious faith is fading by the generation.. alot of it has to do with Science Vs Religion, and much of the church's reasoning disproven by scientific discoveries. Also, the kiddy fiddler priests don't help the cause either.

It's not just on Sythe that people are more drawn towards aetheism.. Ive noticed the trend a few years ago and its grown exponentially.
I can see in 50-100 years, Christianity in it's dying days.. and then what hope do we have for humanity?

Very well said mate

 

Don't be religious to show others how kind you can be or how helpful you are, that isn't the point of it.
Lots of people mix good deeds with Christianity. Good deeds alone won't get you into heaven.