Islam.

Here's how it works in America

1800s to 1900s - Blame black people

1940s to 1950s - Blame black people and the japanese

1950s to 1992 - Blame black people and communists

1992 to 2011 - Blame poor people, black people, and muslims especially.


It's a scare tactic to buy votes so politcians can do whatever they want and blame it on a demographic to cover up their corrupt politics.

We're in the era of blaming muslims for our problems. Billions of muslims & christians, yet no global war. I thought all muslims were extremists? Nah, but all American's think they're the center of the fucking world.

 

Thank you Fire Monkey, you were able to answer him much better than I was . I agree with everything you said 100%

Nimla, the problem is that the majority of the Middle East really is a problem as of right now.. Not as a threat to the United States, but to their own people. The leaders are so fucking corrupt man, its ridiculous. The United State's supports them though, because they need leaders like that to keep the people in ignorance so they can keep exploiting the shit out of their resources.

And btw, I would subsitute Blame with kill/abuse lol. And in 1992-2011 I would add Hispanics.

I think the United States is a great country though, the standard of living is much higher than almost all other places.. I am grateful to live here.

"I love the country I live in, but hate the people in charge" - Immortal Technique

 

When did I say the world was all sunshine and rainbows? And why am I a liberal? You should fucking think before you hang labels on people.

It's people like you who read selected quotes from the Quran and then suddenly think you know fucking everything about everybody. Do you live in Europe? Have you experienced this? I'll bet the closest you've got is reading articles about it on the internet.

Also, I am Atheist.

 

It seems Islam is best known with Terrorism than any other religion. (fact)

Take a look at this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism

And here is another written by a muslim stating things said by people in this thread and were rejected or approved by either side: http://answering-islam.org/Silas/terrorism.htm

I'd like to add that during the Ottoman Empire christians and jews were not killed but only had much less rights and had to pay to get these rights. )Known as أهل الكتا&#1576 - That just shows that the actual terrorism against everyone started lately (in the past 100 years).

and btw, for the record, jews in the roman empire (christian) were killed and had to convert. (unlike in the ottoman empire they were even protected after paying a large fine)

 

im a muslim, in my perspective, all other religions are the same to me, i dont judge others of what they belive in and neither should they.

 

its not our fault, its the muslim extremests, which i personally hate and dont concider them muslims at all, prophet mohammed told the people not to act in such harsh ways, it is the muslim extemests that you should blame not all muslims, extemests changed their perspective on how the quran is written and changed the intre book in order to do what the please. and i do agree with you that it is one of the most "well known" with terrorism sadly.

 

All Religion does is create problems, through out thousands of years it has been used as a false hope for life after death. At least, that's the way I look at it. Why else would a man want to vaporize himself from the face of this earth?

As a side note, you do realize that 99% of American media is controlled by Jews? Historically, Jews and Muslims haven't always been the best friends.

 

Okay, let's use Christianity (the "Church") as an example here:

- The Church pioneered modern Social Work - Jane Addams. Jane Addams was the first American woman to be awarded the Nobel Peace Prize.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_social_work

- London Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children (London SPCC)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Society_for_the_Prevention_of_Cruelty_to_Children#History

- Save the Children. This large relief agency was founded by Eglantyne Jebb who also campaigned for social reform in this area. The Declaration of the Rights of the Child was adopted by the League of Nations. She also pioneered the Child Sponsorship program.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eglantyne_Jebb

- Barnardo’s homes – world’s largest orphanage system. Founded by Thomas John Barnardo.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_John_Barnardo

Etc, etc, etc, etc, and etc. OBVIOUSLY religion is incapable of producing anything even remotely beneficial to the world.

Absolutely and completely false. The people in charge of major news stations, who SOME happen to be "Jewish" (IE their parents or even GRANDPARENTS are of Jewish decent) do not act together in any kind of conspiratorial manner. They do not live Jewish lives or support Jewish causes.


To stay SOMEWHAT relevant to the subject, I find it interesting how quick Muslims are to call the extremists "ridiculous" and "completely wrong". The fact that there's even content in your "Holy book" that's even CAPABLE of being, somewhat easily, completely and utterly "misread", such as they do, is enough for me to be wary of it.

 

You know, you really don't know much about Christianity do you?

Yeah, the Bible is sooo much more tame than the Quran :noworry: . Please see this list of sick and cruel verses from the Bible: http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/cruelty/long.html

 

After reading, "Jesus explains why he speaks in parables: to confuse people so they will go to hell" I, for whatever reason, question the source. Not to mention he doesn't even use the actual bible as a source, he used "http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/mk/6.html#11" which takes things blatantly out of context.

Regardless, I'll use the little Bible knowledge I know to refute what you're saying. 90% of the things listed are in the OT. In Christianity, Christ fulfills the OT law with his life; ergo the sacrifices and punishments are no longer needed (Matthew 5:17).

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Lewis

Actually, the Quran isn't really "easily misread" as it blatantly states the obvious, and they do not follow the guidelines set forth. It's like me picking up a horror novel, opening it up to the middle, and ignoring every word except for the words "you must kill". Al-Qaeda and other groups further their political agendas, gain support, etc, by using the Quran as some sort of justification.

 

I could say exactly the same for the Bible. I don't see what you're trying to get at here.

 

Post your proof from verses of the Quran that it contains hatred towards women please?

Here is mine:

Quran urges husbands to be kind and considerate to their wives, even if a wife falls out of favor with her husband or disinclination for her arises within him:

4:19
O ye who believe! Ye are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should ye treat them with harshness, that ye may Take away part of the dower ye have given them,-except where they have been guilty of open lewdness; on the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and Allah brings about through it a great deal of good.

2:231
When ye divorce women, and they fulfil the term of their ('Iddat), either take them back on equitable terms or set them free on equitable terms; but do not take them back to injure them, (or) to take undue advantage; if any one does that; He wrongs his own soul. Do not treat Allah.s Signs as a jest, but solemnly rehearse Allah.s favours on you, and the fact that He sent down to you the Book and Wisdom, for your instruction. And fear Allah, and know that Allah is well acquainted with all things.

2:229
A divorce is only permissible twice: after that, the parties should either hold Together on equitable terms, or separate with kindness. It is not lawful for you, (Men), to take back any of your gifts (from your wives), except when both parties fear that they would be unable to keep the limits ordained by Allah. If ye (judges) do indeed fear that they would be unable to keep the limits ordained by Allah, there is no blame on either of them if she give something for her freedom. These are the limits ordained by Allah. so do not transgress them if any do transgress the limits ordained by Allah, such persons wrong (Themselves as well as others).

This is a story about when a man came to the prophet asking him questions:

Mothers deserve much more respect than the fathers in Islam.

A man came to the Prophet Muhammad and said, “O Messenger of God! Who among the people is the most worthy of my good companionship?” The Prophet said: {Your mother.} The man said, “Then who?” The Prophet said: {Then your mother.} The man further asked, “Then who?” The Prophet said: {Then your mother.} The man asked again, “Then who?” The Prophet said: {Then your father.}

The Quran ended the cruel practice of female infanticide, which was before Islam. God has said:

“And when the girl (who was) buried alive is asked, for what sin she was killed.” 81:8-9

The Prophet is reported to have said:
“The best among you are those who are best to their wives.”

According to the Prophet Muhammad’s sayings: “women are but shaqa’iq (twin halves or sisters) of men.” This saying is a profound statement that directly relates to the issue of human equality between the genders. If the first meaning of the Arabic word shaqa’iq, “twin halves,” is adopted, it means that the male is worth one half (of society), while the female is worth the other half. If the second meaning, “sisters,” is adopted, it implies the same.

This next verse shows that women and men are equal and deserve equal punishment:

24:2
The woman and the man guilty of adultery or fornication,- flog each of them with a hundred stripes: Let not compassion move you in their case, in a matter prescribed by Allah, if ye believe in Allah and the Last Day: and let a party of the Believers witness their punishment.

9:71
The Believers, men and women, are protectors one of another: they enjoin what is just, and forbid what is evil: they observe regular prayers, practise regular charity, and obey Allah and His Messenger. On them will Allah pour His mercy: for Allah is Exalted in power, Wise.

There's the answer to your accusation (Hopefully you learn something from this)

Also, to OP. Majority of Sythe are athiest. Quran says to say peace to them. They are blind to the world, don't bother.

 

Are you really ignorant enough to think that all of the passages you've seen from the Quran aren't also taken out of context? The same can be done to the Bible whether or not you want to admit it. It doesn't matter which of the versions of the Bible it came from; how can you pick and choose which parts of Christianity mean anything? You can't without invalidating the entire religion. It either has meaning or it doesn't.

 

Why does Muslims feel that cows are gods when their so stupid lol.

 

That is now my new signature LOL. Thanks for making such a idiotic comment lmfao. Walk into a burning house.

And your location:
America In a place called pensilvania.

Troll?

Ivy what you say is true. A lot of the Biblical passages are taken out of context too, and this is coming from a Muslim. Either back it up or lose an argument. Too many ignorant people lose arguments to people that claim something but in reality they have taken it out of context and completely blown it out of proportion.

 

polabear345

I'm in between switching classes at the moment, but will respond to your post.

You are an American Muslim who has been brought up in a completely different culture than the majority of followers of Islam. Religion has caused more deaths than anything else on the planet and that's a fact.

The truth that women are treated like farm animals in countries ruled by Muslim dictators is all the proof that I need, as they use religion to justify their actions.

Here are some quotes from the Quran about negativity for women. I have cited all of these to be accurate, as I have the Quran on my desk that I read daily. It is a book, not of peace, but of mixed passages to guide one throughout their life. Anyone, can pick up this book, and claim anything they want.

Here's the quotes.


10. A husband has sex with his wife, as a plow goes into a field.

The Quran in Sura (Chapter) 2:223 says:

Your women are your fields, so go into your fields whichever way you like . . . . (MAS Abdel Haleem, The Qur’an, Oxford UP, 2004)

9. Husbands are a degree above their wives.

The Quran in Sura 2:228 says:

. . . Wives have the same rights as the husbands have on them in accordance with the generally known principles. Of course, men are a degree above them in status . . . (Sayyid Abul A’La Maududi, The Meaning of the Qur’an, vol. 1, p. 165)

8. A male gets a double share of the inheritance over that of a female.

The Quran in Sura 4:11 says:

The share of the male shall be twice that of a female . . . . (Maududi, vol. 1, p. 311)

7. A woman’s testimony counts half of a man’s testimony.

The Quran in Sura 2:282 says:

And let two men from among you bear witness to all such documents [contracts of loans without interest]. But if two men be not available, there should be one man and two women to bear witness so that if one of the women forgets (anything), the other may remind her. (Maududi, vol. 1, p. 205).

6. A wife may remarry her ex—husband if and only if she marries another man and then this second man divorces her.

The Quran in Sura 2:230 says:

And if the husband divorces his wife (for the third time), she shall not remain his lawful wife after this (absolute) divorce, unless she marries another husband and the second husband divorces her. [In that case] there is no harm if they [the first couple] remarry . . . . (Maududi, vol. 1, p. 165)

5. Slave—girls are sexual property for their male owners.

The Quran in Sura 4:24 says:

And forbidden to you are wedded wives of other people except those who have fallen in your hands [as prisoners of war] . . . (Maududi, vol. 1, p. 319).

4. A man may be polygamous with up to four wives.

The Quran in Sura 4:3 says:

And if you be apprehensive that you will not be able to do justice to the orphans, you may marry two or three or four women whom you choose. But if you apprehend that you might not be able to do justice to them, then marry only one wife, or marry those who have fallen in your possession. (Maududi, vol. 1, p. 305)

3. A husband may simply get rid of one of his undesirable wives.

The Quran in Sura 4:129 says:

It is not within your power to be perfectly equitable in your treatment with all your wives, even if you wish to be so; therefore, [in order to satisfy the dictates of Divine Law] do not lean towards one wife so as to leave the other in a state of suspense. (Maududi, vol. 1, p. 381)

2. Husbands may hit their wives even if the husbands merely fear highhandedness in their wives (quite apart from whether they actually are highhanded).

The Quran in Sura 4:34 says:

4:34 . . . If you fear highhandedness from your wives, remind them [of the teaching of God], then ignore them when you go to bed, then hit them. If they obey you, you have no right to act against them. God is most high and great. (Haleem, emphasis added)

1. Mature men are allowed to marry prepubescent girls.

The Quran in Sura 65:1, 4 says:

65:1 O Prophet, when you [and the believers] divorce women, divorce them for their prescribed waiting—period and count the waiting—period accurately . . . 4 And if you are in doubt about those of your women who have despaired of menstruation, (you should know that) their waiting period is three months, and the same applies to those who have not menstruated as yet. As for pregnant women, their period ends when they have delivered their burden. (Maududi, vol. 5, pp. 599 and 617, emphasis added)


Edit:

But yeah, your sig is funny as hell.

 

Divine,

This is the key point ^ For example, if you take Saudi Arabia as the rightful shari'a law and take it as the true face of Islam then you are utterly misguided (No offence intended here please note that). Misguided meaning that since that seems to be the central place for Muslim pilgrimage and is a middle eastern country, taking it as a Muslim country and taking it's law as Muslim law would be the obvious thing to do. I don't blame you. You would be surprised at how many Muslims want to overthrow the Saudi Monarchy that is prevalent right now. The country with a bloody sword on it's flag using Islam to justify taking rights away from women and treating them like dirt under their feet. It is disgusting. The truth is that they go against so many principles in Islam. They take away women's right to drive for example. That clearly goes against the verse I quoted in my earlier post. Remember, judge the religion by the book, not the people.

The analogy of the wife as a tilth for the husband reflects the simple reality wherein the husband 'sows' his seed and wife brings forth a return in terms of a child.

It also shows that sexual freedom is allowed in Islam. Meaning that permission is given to try different methods of sexual intercourse with one's wife.

Ah, this is something I must clear up with you brother. Sayyid Abul A’La Maududi is a Sunni scholar and his historical background hinted that he was a sectarian discriminator. There are two major sects in Islam, Shia and Sunni. I am part of the Shia group of Islam and I do not believe a word this man says. There is a lot of hate towards us these days. I do not feel obliged to defend the point of view of someone who has deviated from our religion. Sorry about that, but if possible, please try and stay only to Shia references, at least when debating with me. Thanks (Bukhari and Muslim are not Shia references).

Muslim theologians explain this aspect of inheritance by looking at Islamic law in its entirety, which bestows the responsibility and accountability on men to provide safety, protection and sustenance to women. One might look at this and think that it is belittling women. Once again, in Islam, women and men have different responsibilities and the responsibility of a Woman is to raise the children. The responsibility of a man is to provide for the wife. The influence of the mother on children is much, much greater than that of the father on the child generally speaking. That is not to say that women aren't allowed to work. They can work if they wish, but in an ideal society it is better for them to raise the children. Thus they gain the status of respect 3 times that which the father gains, even though he is the one gaining the money for the sustainment of the family. I have a friend who has a masters degree in micro biology. He works and earns for their family, but his wife stays at home and looks after their 1 year old daughter. She is a convert from Christianity to Islam. The thing that is interesting here is that the wife has a doctorate in micro biology. I recently found this out and I was amazed at how well these people put their priorities in line. The wife refused to work because she knew that her duty was essential to the growth of their child. This verse does not mean that men are not equal to women; It is merely showing one of the many responsibilities of men. There are numerous verses of the responsibility of women too, in the Quran. man is the person solely responsible for the complete maintenance of his wife, his family and any other needy relations. It is his duty by Law to assume all financial responsibilities and maintain his dependents adequately. It is also his duty to contribute financially to all good causes in his society. All financial burdens are borne by him alone. This responsibility comes with a right, because as we know with any position, whether it be president, teacher, doctor, or husband comes with a responsibility. To fulfil the responsibilities of those positions, the person with that responsibility is entitled to certain rights. The president, for example has certain rights over his/her people.

Now, we have a male heir, on one side, burdened with all kinds of financial responsibilities and liabilities. We have, on the other side, a female heir with no financial responsibilities at all or at most with very little of it. In between we have some property and aid to redistribute by way of inheritance. If we deprive the female completely, it would be unjust to her because she is related to the deceased. Likewise, if we always give her a share equal to the man's, it would be unjust to him. So, instead of doing injustice to either side, Islam gives the man a larger portion of the inherited property to help him to meet his family needs and social responsibilities. At the same time, Islam has not forgotten her altogether, but has given her a portion to satisfy her very personal needs. In fact, Islam in this respect is being more kind to her than to him. Here we can say that when taken as a whole the rights of woman are equal to those of man although not necessarily identical (see Qur'an, 4:11-14, 176).

I hope this clears things up a little. I know it is a little hard to accept because of previous biases about the religion of Islam, but please try and read this with an open mind and you'll see where I'm coming from.

Again, females have more rights over females in some aspects of Islam and males have more rights over males in other aspects. These rights come due to their respective responsibilities. I hope you understand that.

This verse is only meant in the financial context, loans etc. And this is why:

Again, as I stated above, women are gifted with the responsibility and right of raising the child and helping them grow and human beings. In an ideal Islamic society, women do not usually tend to financial cases, but in the event that women are needed, they are asked to present themselves in pairs because of the simple fact that they will be inexperienced in this matter. They would not be as accustomed to giving their account of events relating to a loan and thus to prevent any skewing of facts, one woman is there as moral support to another and to also support the other's facts.

Tell me, what is the divorce rate in the US? 70% of all marriages sooner or later end up in a divorce?

What is better 4 wives that MUST under all circumstances be treated equally (it can be a great pain), or 1 wife and 3 mistresses? Also, when a woman is marrying a man she may specify in the marriage contract that she whishes the marriage to remain monogamous and from that point onwards, the man is not allowed to marry another wife because he must be obedient to his own wife and the contract they have both agreed upon.

This one is a misinterpretation. The verse is stating that when a monogamous marriage is in place, if a man does not have the power to be equitable to all of his wives, he MUST NEVER leave one in suspense and lean towards another. He must try his best to keep all of his wives happy.

The verse says that if you think your wife is adulterating or conspiring against you, talk to her (admonish) about it gently and find out the truth and remind her of God's teachings:

Admonish:
To reprove gently but earnestly.
To counsel (another) against something to be avoided; caution.

If she doesn't listen and continues with her misdeeds separate her from you. And if she still continues, hit her (the root word in arabic used in the verse means a light hitting). 'Halaka'

Had you understood the verse's full implications you would have agreed with it. Today you see men murdering and hurting their wives if they commit adultery but the Quran says no, talk to them gently, then if they refuse to listen, separate them from you, if they still don't listen THEN only can you hit them (lightly). Because men are the protectors over women (again this is their responsibility, and it comes with rights).

That is all I have time to say for the moment brother. It was very nice talking with you and you seem like a respectable person. Please try and understand where I am coming from and then only judge whether you agree or disagree with what is being said. FYI, I am not an American-Born Muslim (idk why you made that assumption); I am Iraqi born. But I wish you all the best in your research and take care

 

You fail to see that in the greater picture, Religion has caused more harm than good. I'm not going to waste my time battling this debate over an internet forum with quotes and examples. Religion gives you false hopes, I can see why so many of you are trying to defend it.

 

He stated that nothing good has come from religion and I beg to differ. That had nothing to do with the Quron/Islam.

I didn't say that.

It appears you don't know quite as much about the Bible as you act like you do. It's not a different "version" of the Bible, it's the same book. It's divided into the OT and NT. The OT was pre-Christ. The entire religion of Christianity is based on Christ dying to fulfill the law. The laws of the OT are no more, which are 90% of the "horrible things" the guy stated are in the Bible.