Enforced Uniform

Coming from a kid who's worn a proper uniform all his life for school (blazer, shirt, tie) there aren't really any positives for requiring students to become homogeneous in terms of attire.

Given that requiring uniforms is positive claim, it should have some reasoning behind it. Are there any compelling reasons to implement a school uniform?

 

I say absolutely not. Being able to wear your own clothes helps encourage self-expression and individuality.

 

Many people are unable to relocate.

You are only thinking of yourself. You have the false premise that I am alone in my belief. However, you are completely wrong there and ignoring those who do not care and only taking into account those who do care is bad logic and thus your argument is invalid.

By definition proper enforcement will work. You have said nothing.

Cloths != looks. Looks != cloths. Body != looks (while dressed). Looks != body (while dressed). The point is, some people take comfort in making decision about what to wear that they believe makes them look nice. A uniform is just going to make them feel like shit regardless if everyone else wears the same thing as their bodies are different which means they all look different in uniforms. Some will still be hot, but lesser so. Some will be hotter. Some will be less ugly. Some will be uglier.

How many people get made fun of for their cloths? Like two people a year? And yes you can change your looks by changing your cloths.

It's not. I was nullifying an argument, not making one.

Eliminates bullying because of someone's clothes. Again, the aim is reduction of bullying.

They are shy because they are born shy. One can't get rid of it that easily. Even if they wore daily clothes, they would still feel insecure wondering what others think about him/her. There are better ways to eliminate shyness.

What? Bullies will bully no matter what you do. There is nothing you can do to change that, so no I didn't support bullying.

A. Lay your cloths out at night.
B. Put on what ever is on top.
C. Stop worrying so much about what matches what.

Reduction through destruction of basic human rights? Dress codes work. Very well. Uniforms work well. Very well. Which one denies students their rights more? Uniform. Which makes sense economically? Dress code. Which works better? Dress code. It helps students define themselves and figure out who they are which is one of the main challenges of your teen years (read that in my girlfriends kids development book). Parents can also enforce non-uniform dress codes.

3. Go home and change.

If? Dress codes are just as easy to enforce as uniforms if not easier.

Not an excuse to get rid of uniforms even though that is contributing to a persons low self esteem? I like that logic. No excuse to get rid of rapists. No excuse to get rid of murders. No excuse to get rid of bullies.

Anyways. Uniforms can cause bullying and non-uniforms can too. You seem to hate bullying, so you can not decide that one act of bullying is good while another is bad. Individuality is important in the teen years since that is one of the main struggles of those years. Finding yourself, what you like, who you are are some of the major changes you go through and not being able to present yourself to the world as you can seriously fuck up a kid.

Banning alcohol in the US caused the amount being consumed every year to spike even higher than when it was legal. Teens in the US drink way more than teens in countries where it is legal. Making things against the rules makes people do them more many times.

 

In which case we would have to choose B.

Way to throw my own argument back at me.

Bad logic? If they don't care, it means it doesn't matter to them what decision I make, and if it did, then they would fall under the "Do Care" category.

If you think you're in the "Do Not Care" category, then maybe you should re-think it, because by arguing with me, there's no way you fall in that.

Said nothing? Please, do expand.

Are we forgetting the "Do Not Care" category?

If someone was rich/popular, I would feel much more comfortable to approach him/her if we both wore the same uniforms.

Was talking about the face mainly.

The main point is, it will eliminate the sense of superiority, as opposed to a friend circle in which the richest is often regarded as the strongest.

Nullifying? You were saying X (some students) prefer Y (the freedom to wear whatever you want), therefore Z (uniforms) should be gotten rid of, giving no regard at all to A (the other students).

By saying that, you only considered only what a fraction of the school's population thought.

Meanwhile, I considered EVERY opinion (X and A) and decided that they would benefit if I removed a layer of separation.

You endorsed competitive dressing, while at the same time saying "Don't do it if you don't want to," ignoring the fact that people will still get dragged into it.

Again, remember this word: reduction.

Yet you agree that some people like to be able to choose what they want to wear. Contradict yourself much? You're trying to force your opinion on others.

You don't "need" clothes to define who you are. People have different personalities for a reason. I've worn a uniform all my life, and trust me, I used to hate it at first but then I began to see that the pros outweighed the cons. I've already defined myself. Do you see me having to use "clothes" to achieve that?

Your point is irrelevant. He said that the principal had to waste his time lecturing all the rule-breakers, and I responded by saying that a proper enforcement would eliminate most of these cases, if not all.

If you agree that they are pretty much on the same level when it comes to "Which one is easier to enforce?" then you can't really bring that point up.

Cool. And I assume someone VERY smart gave you the idea that rapists, murderers and pedophiles are comparable here. I don't think I look very "hot" in my uniform, but that does not mean I suffer from low-self esteem. If you are suffering from it, then the main cause is something else, not clothes. It could perhaps be the inability to do something you've always wanted to do (sports for example). Nobody to give you the confidence you always needed. Nobody telling you, "You can do it." Nobody you can call a real friend. No real goal, no purpose. It's ridiculous if you think someone's gonna go into severe depression because of some uniform enforcement. At best, they would feel uncomfortable.

You seem to only look at the negative sides of things. I never said bullying was a good act, I am saying that there are positive lessons to be learned. You learn to stand up for yourself against the discriminators, and in this process, you also learn how to swallow your own fear and gain the ability to face your enemies directly.

In the same way, you learn as you grow that anger makes you lose control over your body causing you to do irrational things, and it's best to suppress it, and despite it being a negative emotion, you convert it into something positive.

I do not need clothes to define who I am. The body I've been born with, and the personality that I possess is all that I could ever need. Were you not the one to say, "Do not judge people by their looks"? And what does one aim for when he/she wears pretty clothes? Looks, obviously.

Take this to the alcohol thread and I'll give you a proper response, even though I hate re-typing that which has already been said once.

 

More focus is on school work instead of caring about what others are wearing, etc.

 

Exactly. Get over it and adjust.

I'm glad you caught that. I've always defined myself by not caring but by doing that I do actually care. The thing is, I wouldn't want to have to wear a uniform. I want to wear what is conformable and that's all I really care about. Being forced to make sure I wear a certain thing everyday would really irritate me.

Proper enforcement means that you are enforcing the rules properly. That even means that if you ban hats from an entire country, proper enforcement will still make it work.

Do not cares don't really matter unless they actually do care and just want to show that they don't care because they really do not care. And you would. That doesn't mean others would.

Uh? I hung out with a fucking massively rich well dressed guy and he was not the strongest at all. Everyone essentially was about equal with everyone else regardless if you wore paint covered cloths, designer shit, a button up shirt or a hockey uniform.

You considered all the opinions? No you didn't. I want to wear what I want. I feel better when I wear what I want. Removing a layer of separation will make me feel like shit and make it so that I can not afford normal cloths for when I go home. All you are doing is hurting the majority of people.

It is their own fault if they do. Competitive dressing is not inherently bad. There is nothing wrong with it unless people are being forced into it. If you choose not to participate, then don't.

What? I offered options that everyone could do. If you don't want to waste time in the morning, figure out what to wear in advance.

Again with the you. You are being turned into a mindless zombie by wearing a uniform. You will at some point in your life have to choose what to wear. You are going to have to define yourself through your cloths unless you randomly buy and wear things. It helps many people figure out who they are (why would everyone care so much and wear such weird shit if it didn't?)

So essentially, clothes mean nothing so this debate is worthless since it doesn't matter either way? I'm looking at your side negativity since I chose the opposite side.

And, people can gain confidence from dressing the way they think makes them look nice just like they can gain confidence from friends and talking to people.

 

No, it gives a person no identity.

 

Uniforms are a way we identify people. Public servants (like the police for instance) wear uniforms so people can identify them. Wearing a uniform can make it much easier for school faculty to identify a person that does not belong on the campus. A school that requires a uniform can be much safer than one that does not require a uniform.

 

I think it is BAD:
In my opinion, the clothes you wear are a form of expression, and in my school there is no thing such as that, they make us even buy our shoes in school and we must have our hair "short". Girls MUST buy their hair ribbons in the school, etc. it's horrible, but it's one of the most prestigious school in the state so I can not do anything about it.

 

I think he means individuality. It's all good an well for uniforms to promote homogeneous identification, it's quite another for them to strip ones individual identity comprised of preferences and what not.

Personally, I don't see many positives that can be brought about with the implementation of Uniforms in schools. Much better to let people wear what they want as opposed to controlling them.

 

I think its a good idea. It makes everyone equal no matter your wealth, and I have nice clothes so Im not being bias. But Im sure many would argue this is acting communist making everyone wear the same thing or some b.s like that.

 

What's so good about everyone being equal? Equality to this nature, unsegregates the rich from the poor, which necessarily punishes the rich and rewards the poor.

Remember, some rich people wear normal clothes, and some poor people save up for expensive attire.

 

/confused... Are you agreeing or disagreeing? :S

So this is more of a preference thing? If the uniform was to the majority of the school's liking (yourself included), would you agree to it?

The larger the scale, the harder it is to enforce a rule. Compared to an entire country, a school is much smaller, thus, easier to control.

How many others wouldn't feel more comfortable? I think you're exaggerating a bit here.

Sounds like your group is an odd one out.

How precisely would removing this layer harm you? Wouldn't it be better if both the rich and the poor understood each other better? Or are you having financial issues, or caring for those with such issues?

And the point is, people are dragged into it.

Point taken.

I disagree. Wear weird shit? Weren't you the one to say it didn't matter to you what types of clothes other people wore?

Then why not just do the latter to gain confidence? It's not like you'll never wear normal clothes in front of your friends when going out.

 

That actually has some sense to it, but not every school in the world is dangerous enough to take measures against it. Inner city schools in New York city may benefit (where cops have to come every afternoon to stop the kids from starting a riot when school is over) but most schools it is really a non-issue.

 

Just read about a local school district in the paper that has moved to using uniforms. Due to New York State law, schools can not force people to wear uniforms and thus there is an opt-out policy that allows parents to opt their child out of the uniform. Thoughts on this since it adds another layer to the debate?

 

That sounds alot like corporal punishment in schools - with the same opt-out policy as well. I think that this gives a much more fair approach to personal views on the issues, however, what do you think individual students might think as a deviation from their parents opinions? This could be the cause of some issues.

 

Uniforms do not make a good student. But for argument's sake, enforced uniform helps me big time when I don't have a good wardrobe back when I was a student.

 

I was about to post exactly the same thing.
I also believe, it helps when it comes to school trips to places, it is easier to keep track off a large group of school children when they all stand out from the crowd.

 

There have been cases in school, where because a child dresses differently from others, they have been bullied.
Obviously, the young children don't fully understand the concept of bullying.
I do remember an occasion on a non-school uniform day, where a friend of mine wore his normal clothes, a rather shabby and old looking pair of jeans, and a t-shirt. He got looks from the other children all day, now imagine if he spent his entire year like this.

Remember, children cannot choose the background from which they come from, poorer children have enough problems as it is, bullying would be another to add their ever-growing list.

Also bare in mind, the rich have a choice to wear what clothes they like, the poor must save in order to buy expensive attire.

School is segregated enough as it is.

 

No because my girlfriend used to be a catholic school girl and I was like "WOW" when she showed me the whole uniform. I would never take my child to a school with uniforms, it doesn't allow kids to be themselves and wear hats, dress the way they want.