Strippers, degraded or empowered?

this is not about judging ppl for being good looking
this is about judging people for making money by taking their clothes off.

i agree, some nudity is seen as art. and this nudity is usually beautiful in its own way. but this is much different from taking ones top off for a twenty dollar bill.

the fact is that society looks down upon these women and any one who identifies as a stripper is given a lower rank in society or degraded.

IMO, young women should not feel as if making money off the lust of horny men is empowering. if this was true, i should go whore myself out in order to make a few bucks and feel empowered, after all my school tuition is coming up.

 

I know 2 of my friends that were ex strippers and both of them did it to pay for school (both had kids young also) and both have at least a Bacholers degree.

Really? Do you have a job? I'm looking for a job since I just moved here but I hang out with an ex stripper every few days, she's a hair stylist and a nurse. Quite interesting to me. I can't knock somone who has a job, even if it's flippin burgers.


Now here's a question, strippers or burger flippers? Who's lower then?

 

Like I told you on MSN weezy, i'd love to be a male stripper for ladys only lmaoo, def. better then flipping burgers.

 

Actually, if they're only fat and 'ugly' woman in the strip club, I can almost safely say that their would be far fewer men attending.
Prerequisites for working at such clubs involve being good looking. (Group dared someone and we found at LOL)

What's it to you? Why do you care so much?
Is it any different to receiving discounts at shops for being good looking?
Or is it the fact that they have a bikini off that is the turning point.
What if someone took their clothes off, danced in front of you, and their was a house policy of no tips would this change anything given the emphasis on 'for a twenty dollar bill'?

Just because society looks down on a group, doesn't make society right.
Society looks down on people with raggity taggity clothes as poor/beggars, however this is most certainly not the case in some instances.

As I prefaced, an analogy can be skewed to make the subject seemingly empowered, or degraded.

 

If they're comfortable enough with their body to show it off for money, then that's their choice.

 

i am saying that beauty does not factor in when discussing whether women are degraded by stripping. just because being beautiful is a prerequisite, does not make this even fact or in to their degradation

society being right or wrong does not factor in. the fact is, society gives ranks to people within it. and it just so happens that in every society i can think of strippers are given a lower rank than most others. therefore, they are degraded, regardless of the rightness of the society.

should it happen that society suddenly starts respecting strippers instead of giving them a lower rank in society (the definition of to degrade), i would agree that, in that situation, stippers are not degraded.

 

also, the difference between art and stripping is the motivation behind it. one does not seek to make the watcher horny.

 

My response was primarily rooted as a rebuttal.
Irrelevant, I've made my point on the title, and have expanded further.

So if society all of a sudden decided to give a low rank to say, burger flippers, would this mean that they're degraded?
Your argument is society perceives x lowly, therefore x is degraded.

Society also perceives lawyers as cunning money-driven people.
Psychologists as crazy.
The rich as bastards.
Insurance companies as fraudsters.

Your argument is none other than an appeal to belief.

Society believes strippers to be degrading.
Therefore strippers are degrading.

Most strippers seek to make money, attention maybe, sometimes their clients horny. However horniness is merely a by-product.
I also don't believe i initially made the point about art. Nevertheless, I'm certain some strippers don't aim to make their clients horny, it just comes naturally.

 

yes, if society looks down upon a person in a certain position they are degraded. please look up the definition and state why you disagree.
society gives them a lower rank, in other words, society degrades them.


i can't believ eyou are actually arguing that a lot of strippers do not try to make their clients horny. jesus, this is how they make their money.

 

As I said, appeal to belief.
Your arguing whatever society says or proclaims to be true?

You said the motivation behind art and stripping are different.
The motivation behind stripping is money; period.

 

like i asked before, can you tell me one society that does not look down on strippers and/or give them a taboo?


if you can, i would agree that stripping is not degrading, in that society.
fact is, being a stripper comes with a certain stigma and gives strippers lower ranks in society. i can not think of one person that thinks that strippers are of average or better rank, let along a majority of people.

they get money by revealing their bodies to lusty men. other people get money in more respectable ways, less degrading ways.

you can not argue that these two are the same:
i want to make money by being a secretary or something similar
i want to make money by showing lusty men my body and making them horny.

 

Appealing to belief is a logical fallacy.
This is a logical argument.
Your breaking, 'the rules of logic'.

Just because I can't tell you one society that does not look down on them means nothing.
If there was never a society that thought the world was spherical, would that mean the world was still flat? No.

I think being a stripper is a job, the only real concern people have is them showing their private parts.
Models receive money just like strippers for their body, so i hardly think money and beauty are the issue.

Like flipping burgers? Or crawling down sewages to clean up your shit (no offense, mine to and everyone elses) Watch the show that's something along the lines of, 'Worst jobs in the world'.

They both make money doing different jobs, was that in dispute?

 

when we are talking about peoples opinions, societies opinions do matter. we are not talking about matter.

society created the informal ranking system that people base many of their opinions on and therefore the beliefs of society are where we need to look when asking whether someone is given a lower rank by a certain behavior.

ex.
when arguing about whether people look down on religious people you would need to include people opinions or beliefs


but if you want to ignore the stigma that society places upon strippers, go ahead. i can not argue with you or provide proof, as i doubt there have been any studies about peoples opinions about strippers, as they are pretty much self evident.

 

I think doctors are degraded, because they have to work with soon to be decomposing bodies.
Thats an opinion.
Popularity doesn't give an opinion validity, nor credibility.

As I said, Appeal to belief, and borderline Appeal to popularity.

The only thing you've proven is society believes strippers are degraded.
This statement is not valid without logically fallacious lines of reasoning.

I would not say, because society does, which is what you've done.
I would say, belief in a deity is irrational, because, there is no proof for the existence of such God/dess, and, as such, arbitrary belief is irrational.

I would not think strippers being degraded are axiomatic.


Seriously, the only difference between a model and a stripper is really that a model doesn't show her private parts, they still sometimes wear sexy lingerie.

Society also places a stigma on lets say, Asians being bad drivers.

However I would wager, unless you've been to asia and seen how they drive, you are a buffoon. Many western drivers are atrocious, and most Asian drivers are exceptional, just not the ones brought up in western society.

 

1. if you strip, then society has given you a low rank in society (evident in the stigma strippers are given and the majorities negative view of them)
2. if you are given a low rank in society, then you are degraded
3. therefore, if you strip, then you are degraded.


de·grade
verb \di-ˈgrād, dē-\
Definition of DEGRADE
transitive verb
1
a : to lower in grade, rank, or status : demote


this would change if society did not stigmatize strippers and they had a good rank on society. however, this is not the case.

 

you do not give doctors a lower rank by your beliefs.
society decides peoples rank in society. society is made of many people. if many people, that constitute a society, give a profession a lower rank, they degrade them, literally.

i agree, stereotypical beliefs degrade certain people. once before black people were degraded.

as such, western society degrades the average asian driver.

 

I do not want to get into an argument of semantics.
Suffice to say, I took degrade in the OP's context to mean this - Treat or regard (someone) with contempt or disrespect".

With your definition, I will agree that society as a collective whole perceives strippers to be a lower rank. I find this without much basis though, and not grounds for use in a logical argument, as it is as I've stated before appeal to belief and popularity.

If I say, the sky is blue (and it is).
You and all your group of friends say, no, it is grey.

Who's correct? The group, or the individual?

Yes, and guess what, society can be wrong, or right. However it cannot be used in a logical argument of what society says, as it is again, a fallacious line of reasoning.

 

Degradingly empowering: empowering in the short, I would contend, yet degrading in the long term.