On the topic of religion:

Opinions?

 

Science can't answer everything. Religion tries to give reasoning to something we humans have little clue about. But the question is always used as an arguement from people who believe something or someone who is beyond this reality or dimension created/caused the Universe to exist.

 

Stephen Hawking has a theory explaining how the Universe seemingly came out of nothing, which was always something that pushed me towards creation.

 

Some people will just always believe in unproven things. If someone believes in aliens and is obsessed with them they are crazy but if a Christian is obsessed with god its alright.

 

He claimed 25 or so years ago that there is a God. He just keeps changing his mind and his "facts".

Source: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-11161493

You can say it's a new discovery, but looking at other things he wrote lately (in the past 5 years), it just seems he has gone mad:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8642558.stm

I don't trust his claims anymore. :/

~~~
I don't think it's crazy to be obsessed with aliens. I remember that 6 years ago I went to the Imax in one of the museums and they had shown a documentary movie about astronomers and missions they have done so far in space, including the probes they managed to send and so on. At the end of the movie they began telling their future plans about launching a probe for Europa, one of the Jupiter moons which will dig to its core as there are water. In other words, there might be "life" on Europa.

If a documentary movie with such content is shown in a popular museum, I doubt theories about aliens are considered crazy now a days. At least in formal places with intellectual people.

 

What is "nothing" in your sentence?

Are you talking about supernatural beings, people, or what?

 

Yes, he adjusted his position when new evidence was discovered. What an anathema to the religious among us who believe in thousand year-old holy books that contain absurdly nonsensical ideas!

Extraterrestrial life forms may wish to raid our planet for resources in a way akin to that of our own explorers during the Age of Discovery. What's the issue with this?

Stephen Hawking has gone mad, as is evident since he discusses the danger of contact with alien life, yet it's not crazy at all to be "obsessed" (Mr. Hawking certainly isn't) with aliens. The ridiculousness of your position is self-evident.

As per the OP's first cause argument, god is made to violate the entire premise that is given.

 

So, the only way that a god, or higher being doesn't exist, is if physics is a lie?

I think god wins this one. No matter what you say, without any matter, or mass, it's impossible to create something from nothing. There has to be a beginning.

 

I consider someone mad when they warn people about cooperating or not cooperating with aliens:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8642558.stm

Saying aliens exist is fine, warning and planning a head for "What will happen if they decide to raid earth someday" is just absurd in my opinion.

It has been already proved my Einstein that it's impossible to pass the speed of light or even get close to it and according to our astronomers and scientists, the nearest galaxy is a few light years away. Warning people about "aliens raiding" earth is not practical AT ALL with the evidence collected in the past 100 years. Unless you want to say he's going against all the scientists and astronomers in the world including priests and god believers?

@Mercyless Pk, that's exactly what Stephen Hawking said about 25 years ago. :/

To topic - physics work so long you're on earth, in this "dimension" and aren't close to infinity in whatever it is. All of the physics equations for example are way different when you're close to a black hole. How can you say that upper powers don't exist if the physics equations change in different situations?

 

Sorry but it doesn't really sound like you know much about what you're talking about. We're only human, we can not describe the forces around us 100% accurately. We do the best with what we're given. That's where the "laws" of physics come into play. They're a man-made concept with the goal of describing everything around us. Is it perfect? No. Should it be disregarded because it doesn't work in every single situation imaginable? No.

To apply the same logic you are using to religion.. how can you say that higher powers DO exist when they do not give a scientifically accurate version of how the Earth formed, or life for that matter? Christianity, just as an example, says it was created by God in 6 "days", often construed by the wording (I forget exactly how it is worded) to mean that each day = 1000 years. Neither example is correct, obviously, because we know that the Earth is much older than that. We also know that you can't create a female from a rib, etc.

Also not to nitpick, but the closest STAR is a few light years away. Our galaxy alone is 100,000 light years across. The nearest galaxy is MILLIONS of light years away haha.

 

Religion was a greate idea back when you didnt have what we have today, the food was hard to get. it was usually very hard to live when religion started comming up. This is to give REASON for all the things that were happening. Now that we have it OK, and have Answers to alot of the questions asked at that time. i don't see how people can belive in a 2000 year old story telling you of a man that could walk on water. and a man that could take two of every spices on a boat. and not to mention a man that split the water in two with a staff. it might still give reason to some aspects of the earth and the questions we still have. but 90% of the book is total bullshit and has been prooven to be wrong. its IMPOSSIBLE to say "GOD doesnt exist", but its also impossible to proove that "hey a Chicken farted and the big bang happend".

in my eyes u have to be pretty stupid to belive in god, and i belive that most people that do belive in god havent found their faith themselves. theyv been told to do this since they were born = in what religion is, a cult carried trough generations because of families forceing their child to belive in the same thing they do instead of makeing their own choice.


Might i add that the bible also says "if u do not know the word of god. you wont be sent to hell"

WHY THE FUCK TELL US ABOUT HIM?

 

No I wasn't saying that I think they are crazy I was making a comparison. See how people are talking about Stephen Hawkings on here? One of the most famous scientist in the world just so happens to believe in aliens and says that they will come to Earth. He is crazy right? Well how about this....

Christians say god is going to come to Earth on judgement day but that is perfectly fine to say, pretty cool double standard

 

If you yourself state that it's not possible to describe the things around us with 100% accuracy, then you can't say there is NO god. God is something us humans haven't been able to "describe", just like we can't describe a black hole. There is still so much "Unknown" around us and by saying it doesn't exist, you're just escaping reality.

Did you know that in Korea they study the Jewish Talmud? They have no connection to Judaism, but they still study a Jewish book only the religious Jews study. Why I ask?

They believe it is the reason the Jewish nation still exists after tens of nations tried annihilating them. How can you explain that with physics? You can't. Just like you can't explain a black hole and can't explain if the universe has an end or not.

If you can't explain something, you can't just say it doesn't exist. As I said, you're just trying to escape reality to a better "less harmful" place.

Let me clear myself. Stephen Hawking is a very smart man who stood before science and the doctors and proved that death is only decided by God or to the atheists, that we still don't know the things around us. The doctors told him when he was in his 20s that he will die in a couple of years with his condition. Now 20 years have passed and he is still living a life with his FAMILY. That's just an amazing man.

What I am saying though is that in the last couple of years his mind is "a bit off". Scientists around him proved something and he is stating something that is not possible or at least not something very well though of. "An alien invasion" he says and warns people about it. If Einstein proved it's not possible to get close to the speed of light as I mentioned earlier, then how exactly will aliens invade earth?!? Teleport? An act of god? Oh oops, he said lately that god doesn't exist. Although he said 25 years ago that he does...

 

These arguments always go the same way, people give religious opinions and people give scientific opinions on how the earth and everything exists and at the end it all comes down to what you believe. Neither is proven as correct and neither can explain everything (with proof). Science can not explain everything, it gets as close as possible to explaining everything, but can't, there are still many things unknown. Religion does explain everything, if it doesn't have an answer, it's "God can do anything" type of thing, but religion doesn't have proof.

All it will ever come down to is what the person personally believes in, you can argue one side all you want but in the end it won't explain everything and thus will come down to personal belief.

Edit: It would be really cool to see a debate between a scientist specializing in this type of stuff, and a pastor who understands this type of stuff and has religious reasoning to explain, I bet it would be really interesting to watch a debate like that. I think one was done a few years ago, I am going to see if I can find information on it.

Quote by Einstein I found interesting:

 

You're over analyzing it, dude. I don't think I've ever come right out and said "there is no God", because I accept that it is a possibility, however unlikely. The only thing I am certain of is that "God", if it exists, is not the "God" to any of the prescribed religions of the human world. Why, in this VAST universe, would this "God" divide the world into the MANY religions we know today? The religions we know today such as Christianity, Judaism, Islam, etc. have evolved as a CULTURAL thing when science was not around to explain things to the early humans.

Are you really asking me to explain why Korea studies a holy book that they're not connected to with physics? You explained yourself WHY they study it, because they're incredibly resilient people. Do I need to explain that with physics for the point to be made? No.

Also, the burden of proof lies on religion, not the other way around. If you were to assert that there was a teacup orbiting one of Saturn's moons, you would have to back that up with some sort of proof before it would be considered legitimate. The same is true for religion. You cannot just say God exists, and yet hold no verifiable evidence of him, and expect it to be believed. Science has a baseline viewpoint, a static view with no creator. Proof is not needed, even though there have been multiple scientific discoveries that discredit much of what was said in holy books such as the Bible.

I'm honestly not sure where you were going with your post at all. You have extremely bad logic.

 

And I'm honestly not sure how the last line was really necessary? The same way I think you have "bad logic", you think the same of me. That's how big discussions are. When you don't agree with someone, you always end up thinking the other guy has "bad logic".

Did you read Cami3532's post?:
"Science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind "

Once again, another big scientist claims supernatural powers exist. The baseline of science obviously ISN'T as you claim, that it has no creator. Religious people DO study science.

Both Hawking and Einstein after doing their researches got to the same conclusion, my point.

It's hard to explain supernatural powers as they happen, but aren't seen. You must agree with me that the majority of things around us are described as "unknown". How can you say they don't exist if you've never even proved what they are? Being an athiest is just a fast way out saying "I don't owe anyone anything because I can't see god". That's the description of god and even science proves that he must have existed or exists just like the same conclusion Hawking and Einstein got to.

Regarding to your first paragraph, how do you know that the god who started the scientific chain isn't the one we have today? What "source" do you have?
Judiasm, Islam and Christianity are examples of religions which believe in the individual god. Budiasm and Hindi believe in other supernatural powers.

Did you know that in the book of Yeshaya it says that one day all the nations will believe in the same individual god (as well as more things...). Well, at the time the book was written only Judiasm existed as a religion which has one individual unseen god. Now there are more and there are still more people believing every year in such religions. If you want to connect the two, our reality is getting closer to this prophecy. And what exactly are the chances that 2 religions would both grow out of one very small religion called "Judiasm"?

Technically, our reality is becoming what god wanted according to the book of Yeshaya.

 

Ignorance is obviously bliss in your case my friend. You're looking at atheism from a theistic standpoint, of course it seems like the "fast way out". Much like from an atheistic standpoint, a theistic standpoint looks like a bunch of false hope and lies to make us feel better. You can't have an intelligent debate if you have a biased view on the thing being argued.

"what exactly are the chances that 2 religions would both grow out of one very small religion"

Are you stupid? Have you not heard of Catholics or Protestants? They both originated from Christianity. Is it THAT hard to grasp that over time, the simple beliefs of the early humans evolved on a cultural basis and eventually departed from the same types of beliefs as each other?

I don't believe that God, if he exists, is the one we know in any of today's religions because of how I feel about it evolving as a cultural thing. I also thought that was implied. I also thought that it was implied that this were merely my opinion, based on reasoning of what could have very easily and probably did happen over time as people started to become more intelligent and their beliefs started to change. I bet that if you took whatever religion you are most accustomed to (which appears to be Judaism) and went back to the time of origin, it would be NOTHING like you know today. Does this not prove my point? This applies to ALL religions.

I also think you're extremely uninformed on Hawking. He does not believe in God:

"The question is: is the way the universe began chosen by God for reasons we can't understand, or was it determined by a law of science? I believe the second. If you like, you can call the laws of science 'God', but it wouldn't be a personal God that you could meet, and ask questions."

"I regard the brain as a computer which will stop working when its components fail. There is no heaven or afterlife for broken down computers; that is a fairy story for people afraid of the dark."

Also it seems you have thought Einstein to be religious.. Not the case:

"My position concerning God is that of an agnostic. I am convinced that a vivid consciousness of the primary importance of moral principles for the betterment and ennoblement of life does not need the idea of a law-giver, especially a law-giver who works on the basis of reward and punishment."

"I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it."

You are taking the meaning of what Einstein said about science without religion as what you WANT to see it as. There's no joy in discovering there is no God, if there was no assertion of his existence in the first place. The people who you use to defend your point are actually VERY similar to my own beliefs, they just don't use the term. They have a very pantheistic tone about their beliefs. Pantheism believes that God and the universe are identical, if you were unaware.. but not a personal God that most of the world's religion teaches us. Again, this goes back to how I don't believe the Gods of Christianity, Judaism, Islam, etc are the true "God", if I even dare use that word, for fear of you misconstruing it into me believing in God. I will repeat, my idea of God does NOT include a personal, anthropomorphic, OR creator God, so please do not be diverted by what you wish to believe about what I'm saying.

Next time check your facts etc before posting, I really don't feel like doing all the digging FOR you.