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Attention! Goldfarming is LEGAL!

Discussion in 'Market Discussion' started by FibOfAllFibs, May 1, 2011.

  1. FibOfAllFibs

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    Attention! Goldfarming is LEGAL!

    I have been wondering for a very long time as to whether selling Runescape items/gold was legal or not, so I did a bunch of research over 3 months and found out the answer.
    After 3 months of research on this, the short and long of it is that "illegal" is the improper term for it. It is not in violation of any real world laws, such as intellectual property or copyrights. Because the items never leave RS, and Jagex states in their TOS/EULA/PP that "all items are the property of Jagex," the items are never really transfering in ownership. No matter who is using the item at the time, it still belongs to Jagex. So you cannot be held responsible for selling their property or said to be breaking the law, because you are not selling the item itself, only the license to use it, which you have rightfully acquired by playing their game.
    Unfortunately, just because it is not illegal does not mean you can't be prosecuted. Jagex states in their TOS that they have the right to prosecute should they feel that they "suffer any loss or damage from the breach of their contract." Gold farming breaks their TOS (and their EULA and PP I'm sure), so if they could present in court acceptable evidence that could prove they have suffered loss or damage from your business, you could be sued.

    *TOS stands for Terms of Service*
    *EULA stands for End User License Agreement*
    *PP stands for Privacy Policy*
     
  2. Geezus

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    Attention! Goldfarming is LEGAL!

    LOL clever !
     
  3. ChristmasCracker

    ChristmasCracker Lord ChristmasCracker
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    Attention! Goldfarming is LEGAL!

    That right there, clarifies it all.
    Very nice find + research.
     
  4. FibOfAllFibs

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    Attention! Goldfarming is LEGAL!

    Thanks :) I have been debating with my dad over this because he won't let me sell RSGP if it's illegal, so I did a bunch of research so that I would be able to.
     
  5. Simple Merchant

    Simple Merchant Skype: SMsythe -- 350+ Vouches
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    Attention! Goldfarming is LEGAL!

    Nicely Done sir.
     
  6. rwa_

    rwa_ Active Member

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    Attention! Goldfarming is LEGAL!

    "You agree to keep your password safe at all times and not to disclose it to any other person."
    ~Jagex TOS

    So, you will take the password from another person and farm gold on their account? Hmm, sounds like they don't want you to do that.

    "You must comply with the current version of any rules, guidelines, codes of conduct or instructions specified in any Jagex Product including our game rules, the current version of which is linked to here and incorporated herein by reference. Any use of any Jagex Product not in accordance with the game rules exceeds the scope of the license granted by these Terms & Conditions."
    ~Jagex TOS

    "If, acting reasonably, we consider that our Terms and Conditions have or may have been breached, or that there has been fraudulent, unlawful or abusive activity, or that it is necessary in order to prevent or stop any harm or damage to us, to any Jagex Product, to other players or the general public, we may Stop (as defined above) any or all accounts of Jagex Products which we think are connected with the offender subject to such right of appeal as is specified on our website and/or restrict access to or delete virtual currency or anything acquired by means of virtual currency. Such actions may result in loss of membership credit and/or loss of real money paid as part of any item / account trading or other prohibited transaction."
    ~Jagex TOS

    So wait. The person being serviced is doing something against their TOS, and they can't be banned?

    You got owned by Jagex's lawyers. Good try.






    Edit for this reason:

    In your post, you say that you have the acquired the license to use the game. False. Sorry. I wish it were so.

    "Materials (including without limit all information, software, data, text, photographs, graphics, sound and video) placed on any Jagex Product by us or on our behalf are protected by copyright and other intellectual property rights of ourselves or our business partners / suppliers / advertisers. You may not use these materials or any Jagex Product except in accordance with these terms and conditions and for personal (i.e. non-commercial) use only."
    ~Jagex TOS

    You aren't buying the rights to use the game. You are essentially buying the services for them to allow you to use the game. Big difference.
     
  7. ChristmasCracker

    ChristmasCracker Lord ChristmasCracker
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    Attention! Goldfarming is LEGAL!

    His idea thing isn't about goldfarming, I believe he may have an incorrect title.
    Since he is doing this so he can SELL RSGP. Not goldfarm (See 2 posts above yours)
     
  8. FibOfAllFibs

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    Attention! Goldfarming is LEGAL!

    Meant to say Gold Selling, sorry. I goldfarm on my own account.
    The above quote from the TOS about "Materials..." refers to the aforementioned things: sound, video, software, data etc. That's where the Snellman brothers got in trouble, because they stole Jagex's images/code to make their bots. Jagex would not include ingame items in these categories because they don't want to recognize them as tangible (and therefore taxable) assets.

    Also, no where did I say I acquired the license to use their game. I have acquired the license to use the items in their game. Because they make it possible to transfer items between players, they give me the right to transfer the license to whomever I wish.

    Finally, you do realize that a breach of TOS is not breaking the law, right?
     
  9. Tckr

    Tckr Grand Master
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    Attention! Goldfarming is LEGAL!

    Jagex will probably bring gold4rs to court before they bring any of the people on Sythe, I don't think people have anything to worry about.
     
  10. FibOfAllFibs

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    Attention! Goldfarming is LEGAL!

    They can't, Gold4RS is in China, and Great Britain's laws can't touch companies there.
     
  11. rwa_

    rwa_ Active Member

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    Attention! Goldfarming is LEGAL!

    Ah. Just noticed. At any rate:

    "Materials (including without limit all information, software, data, text, photographs, graphics, sound and video) placed on any Jagex Product by us or on our behalf are protected by copyright and other intellectual property rights of ourselves or our business partners / suppliers / advertisers. You may not use these materials or any Jagex Product except in accordance with these terms and conditions and for personal (i.e. non-commercial) use only."
    ~Jagex TOS

    Furthermore, you did not acquire the license to use the items in their game; they are intellectual property of Jagex, not you, even during your subscription time. Otherwise non-members would be completely entitled to the entirety of their items, not just their game time (in short, any gold they sold would also be unbannable, the TOS/EULA make no distinction between members and non-members). I understand you cannot be sued, but you can be banned, and IP blocked. If Jagex can prove that you have harmed the number of subscriptions (which they have done with this guy) then you are liable for any damages. In that case, he was found guilty and forced to pay 1000 dollars, and never play or develop anything Runescape related. It's happened, just they won't crack down on someone small-time like you. You're reading what you want in their terms, not what is there.

    In short, you have no rights, protections, or liberties in Runescape. Its a despot. As Jagex may as well say, "We have buried the putrid corpse of liberty".
     
  12. FibOfAllFibs

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    Attention! Goldfarming is LEGAL!

    Kbot is an injection botting site, and, as they use Jagex's gaming code, they have every right to be taken down.
    With all due respect though, you're mistaken. Yes, Jagex has the right to take back any items that you have. But, isn't that even more evidence for the license theory?
     
  13. rwa_

    rwa_ Active Member

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    Attention! Goldfarming is LEGAL!

    Violating the TOS is violating the TOS; the law does not care why, The gold, items, and characters in Runescape are all Jagex's property, not ours. Tomorrow, if Jagex really wanted to, they could refund the past months subscription and close Runescape no questions asked. You have no claim to your virtual gold or items. That is why they can close you down, and that is why you are in violation of the law and their TOS.
     
  14. Blue Gamer

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    Attention! Goldfarming is LEGAL!

    I seen that on some other Gold Farming website, Not in those words but it said somthing along the lines that Jagex never lose the item...
     
  15. rwa_

    rwa_ Active Member

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    Attention! Goldfarming is LEGAL!

    Jagex owns the items you "own" in-game. It's not "your" gold. It's Jagex's gold you are subscribing to use. They don't care how much time it took you to get it. It's theirs. They can take it. They can give it. Goldfarming or selling is certainly not legal in Runescape. End of story.

    As to your license "theory" saying that you have a license, they have it specifically written into their TOS and EULA that they reserve the right to revoke your license if you violate their terms. In short, you lose. These contracts were written by lawyers who are better educated than either of us. We lose.
     
  16. rwa_

    rwa_ Active Member

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    Attention! Goldfarming is LEGAL!

    Just thought I'd point a neat thing out. You know that mom on facebook who got a teenager to commit suicide? She violated the MySpace TOS. While she was acquitted of the charge of fraud, the decision of the court to hear the case shows something extremely important.

    Similarly to Marbury v. Madison, a court can elect to enact the power of judicial review if a law or action is constitutional and decide not to hear the case. When a judge hears a case, and subsequently allows it to go to court, he sets a precedent all future cases must (until overturned by a higher or newer ruling). This decision to hear this case marks the TOS as a legally binding contract; you can be charged with fraud by violating it.

    Jagex's TOS, while in the United States, is a legally binding contract to the same extent as the MySpace TOS is. You are committing fraud by intentionally and knowingly violating the TOS-with malice. Proceed at your own peril.
     
  17. Insane Gods

    Insane Gods Guru

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    Attention! Goldfarming is LEGAL!

    Runescape gold selling breaks no US laws that i'm aware of. If that was the case, Gold4RS would've been gone a long time ago.
     
  18. FibOfAllFibs

    FibOfAllFibs Student
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    Attention! Goldfarming is LEGAL!

    Huh. I was unaware of this. It's not to my knowledge in any way correct, but it's still interesting. Read this. http://elitistjerks.com/f15/t12361-blizzard_sues_peons4hire_spamming/
    Blizzard has similar TOS to Runescape. If what you have said is illegal, why would they not sue Peons4Hire for Gold Selling?
     
  19. FibOfAllFibs

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    Attention! Goldfarming is LEGAL!

    Again, Gold4RS is in China. Jagex can't touch them.
     
  20. Insane Gods

    Insane Gods Guru

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    Attention! Goldfarming is LEGAL!

    That was a terrible example, my bad.

    Lets take USFine for example. If it was illegal to sell runescape gold, they would've been shut down a while back.

    http://www.usfine.com/contact_us.html
     
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