Moderators and Feedback

Disclaimer: This thread is going to be short and sweet and will not contain examples as these, in the past, have only seemed to do more harm than good.

There has been many instances where in which staff members have seemed incapable of receiving feedback in a helpful manner. In order for this point to be better understood, I am going to quickly summarize how feedback is used effectively. Within Sythe, there are two distinct groups of users, those on the staff and those off the staff. These two groups have different expectations for conduct. In general, the staff are expected to act in a manner that is more mature and professional than the non-staff. Part of this expectation is that staff members deal with immature, unhelpful, unprofessional non-staff posts and threads in a mature and professional manner. Simply put, the non-staff are allowed to be morons while the staff are expected to be non-morons, for the most part.

This distinction between these two groups have great implications when it comes to staff feedback. The non-staff can not be held accountable for immature, unhelpful feedback due to their status on the forum. Along with this fact, non-staff are volunteering their time to give feedback to the staff. These two important facts are the base to how feedback should be handled. Much like how non-staff can not demand things from the staff, the staff can not demand things from the non-staff in regards to feedback. Thus, feedback from the users can only be taken as what is posted unless the staff member feels a need to ask the user to provide more, knowing that the user is not required to. Staff also should not openly dismiss feedback as incorrect as the non-staff are volunteering their time to assist the staff and as the staff are held on higher expectations for behavior meaning the staff should accept the feedback at face value.

Essentially, how feedback is handled determines whether or not the feedback is good or not. Good feedback is defined as feedback that helps shape the staff's actions so that they perform to the highest standards possible. Bad feedback does not accomplish this. The staff are the ones held to make the best of the feedback given not the non-staff, due to the reasoning above.

In glossing over the issue as concisely as I can, I inevitably missed many important points in this. However, I hope that the message I am trying to convey is still clear. Essentially, the staff are held to make all feedback as helpful as possible and their are many methods of which to do so that can be employed in order to make this happen.

 

I can see where you're coming from. I can give a perfect example for this... Yes, it seems some people get really butt hurt when someone says anything negative about them rather than fixing that flaw of theirs.

 

I love criticism.

 

I'm not sure what you're trying to prove, but I hold all members to a certain level of respect. If someone isn't respecting other users, they're banned. Posting is more of a privilege and isn't a right.

I'll provide an example to be more specific. If someone is using racist slurs, consistently providing completely irrelevant feedback, etc, eventually we could remove him from the feedback forum or the whole forum in general.

 

You hit a point I decided to leave out for space. There are limits still, but no where near the level that moderators are held to. However, only in very extreme situations should these limits be applied to feedback. If every time someone posts mad feedback, they get punished, people will be afraid to post their own feedback. Its okay to stop terribly disrespectful feedback by simply stating that it will not help anyone and needs to be presented in a respectful way. Of course, for non-staff, a respectful way can not be expected to be as great as the staff.

I am going to take a moment to explain why this is not helpful nor relevant, for the sake of better understanding. I hope no one finds offence.

In this thread I am simply stating that "there has been many instances where in which staff members have seemed incapable of receiving feedback in a helpful manner". Thus, loving feedback is not really relevant, but for a moment lets assume it is. By stating what you have, the way you have, it seems like you are disagreeing with what has been presented in the thread, like you do not fit into the "instances" that are being discussed. This is perfectly reasonable. However, it is not helpful in anyway. This thread being in the feedback forum means that it is attempting to convey feedback to the staff. If the feedback is not about you, which you have implied, there is no reason to post. Even if I had called you out specifically, posting this would still not be helpful. Feedback is given by users, usually without proof, about things that they see on the forums. Getting into a fight about whether or not what they have seen is correct helps no one.

Bottom line: There is always a reason that people post feedback. If there is not, then the feedback can just be ignored. Negative feedback carries two parts, the issue, and a solution. Many times the solution must be figured out by the receiver of the feedback. If you disagree with someones feedback, then ask for why they believe so. Ask them to provide examples so that you can improve. What you think about yourself does not matter. What others do does.

 

Posting is a privilage? What sort of a forum is ths?

 

often users use emotions as their main reason for feedback. And rarely do members post feedback to improve the site. Let's face it, the majority of users want to keep the staff they get along with and get rid of those who they dislike because it a. Makes staff positions available and b. Increases their chance of getting staff.

 

Even if these things were true, they do not matter at all. The staff still hold the responsibly to be professional and mature.

 

The fact that my only three mods responded to my thread and all three seemed to try to show me why my feedback is wrong or bad really does strengthen the point I am making quite a lot, in my opinion.

 

This

It's innevitable it seems like everyone hates FireZ, even some members of staff dissaprove of his ways and disslike him from what i've seen. Suf I respect you so much right now for posting this and the staff should've followed in your example. Obviously there are great members of staff such as Gohanforever who's posts are both helpful and appropriate.

There are other forums, Runescape forums, Fun Orb forums, much bigger than Sythe. The mods on them forum are doing a much better job, they have more threads to look at and they still manage it, so you have no excuse.

Truth is if anyone critisises a mod they're 10x off worse, chances are they'll be banned the next time you see them because the stupid staff can't handle the critisism they get. If you can't work out how to improve by what someone tells you then that's just a joke..

Suf, they know you're right and that's why they don't reply. You're well, thought-out post leaves them stumped without anything to say so they ignore the thread and pretend they haven't seen it.

Keep up the good word staff! (Shame I couldn't find the STRIKEOUT button)

 

That's why I hate a majority of the staff. Attempting to say posting is a privilege and isn't a right. Maybe you chose the wrong words? I don't know. But they shouldn't have to fear posting feedback. Seriously. It's either kiss ass or get infracted.

 

I agree with many points you make. From past experience (not much, but what can ya do ), I've noticed some Mods who can't take feedback, because most think they are always right, but sometimes, the person who is giving the user feedback, doesn't really give them any options.

Other times, and yes there are many times where a Mod will get negative feedback and another Mod comes along and tries to back the other Mod up. I can understand this, because essentially we are a team, but there are times, when they are both wrong and need to take the advice and learn from it. But also, some members need to give staff feedback, but not just that, they also need to give options on how the particular staff member(s) need to improve, not just saying ""Not so good"

I hope this made sense, and ultimately in the end it takes both sides of the party to be able to make this site better.

 

Have you ever been on an "team" even in NBA or the NFL. If you start a fight, your team will back you up, no matter if your wrong or if your right. As gohan said, the staff are a team and will work likewise.

Next, posting constructive feedback is okay. However so far from what i've seen, all i see are ex-mods trying to get at the current mods for no reason.

Just a few weeks ago someone tried to frame Nate(was omm then) for account cracking with no obvious proof. he said "posting on behalf of a friend" and disappears and i never see him again, he was also an ex-mod and i believe his post was bullshit.

And for your info, FireZ is a great guy who has MM'd plenty for me and has answered and helped me in many ways. Now, there's a problem with him treating possible scammers with strictness? Look at the police, do you see them escorting suspects to jail with a smile on their face and treating them with respect? No
This is the same exact thing here, a possible suspect should get locked up until he proves himself innocent to prevent further harm.

I do not approve of SuF becoming a mod again.

 

Kid. Don't try and start a fight over a matter of nothing. First off, you're trying to provoke a situation by coming out and asking me if I've ever been part of a team. That's where you fail. Maybe because you're one of the kids who joined in October, and is hungry for posts? I was the graphics moderator for well over 8 months, and by deciding my own fate, I was demoted intentionally. If you don't understand the words demotion or intentionally, they mean I wanted to leave.

You're kissing ass to somebody who was your middleman. Of course you're going to side with him because he made your trade go well. This is where you're wrong again. Nobody gives a flying fuck.

Once again. You're wrong. Without any proof, you can't be a potential scammer. If you were comparing this to the police, that's pretty much the predicament. Police are typically over powered and don't let people hoist their own opinion, but they do infact say you're innocent until proven guilty. The case here is not proving anybody guilty, but jumping to assumption that they are.

 

This is not a matter of kissing ass at all. First i dont care if you say i'm a newfag or whatnot, YOU cant do anything to hurt me. I do not care about your status as an x-mod or if you were a graphics moderator for 8 months. This is a site i enjoy using and YOU cannot threaten me. I dont give a flying fuck who YOU are.

First off, they DO NOT jump to conclusions that someone is guilty or not. Have you been on the dispute forums for the past 2 months? Honestly, have you? So far every ban i've seen was just. The Prosecution always have pictures to show, and FireZ IGNORES those without.

How can you say he banns unjustly? And with the amount of scammers, how can you play it "safe". Do you know how infested a blackmarket could be with scammers? They cant stretch a ban to another 7 days risking another scam attempt can they?

And once again

"If it looks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck, then it's probably a duck."

 

I don't think it's the unjust bans, but I think it's mostly the way he responds to them is what upsets most people.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

 

Quit crying because I called you a newfag. You asked if I've been part of a team. Yeah. I told you. Get over it

IF you have read throughout the firez thread, there is a post containing him banning upon a guess.

 

You don't seem to be a great team player by quitting the team and leaving them behind do you? And now your complaining about the newer members of that team you used to be in.

An educated guess is how people catch suspects maybe? If the suspect has proof to show hes innocent hes set free. How else do you think the system works.
And the user he banned probably went along the lines of this.

"If it looks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck, then it's probably a duck."
Look how Sythe wrote "probably".


And to Gohan

I understand, but how else can you respond to possible scammers? I would do it myself if they keep reappearing after playing whack-a-mole over and over again Plus, as pointed before. The frustration behind reading so many scam reports is tiring. I see him on Sythe for hours on hours, he even goes on it at work. That's how dedicated he is. Now seeing people trying to put him down despite his efforts just annoys me.

I support FireZ not because of your term "ass-kissing" but because i acknowledge his hard work and dedication to this site. I am going to stop arguing with you as i need to sleep.

This inst a perfect world you live in princess, sometimes measures have to be taken an alternate way. And i find it JUSTIFIED.

 

Sorry, but all the respect I had for you is gone.

Firstly, it's up to each individual to decide whether they want to continue moderating or not. You have no right at all to accuse Kiabin of leaving his fellow members behind. Everyone has IRL things they have to attend to. Most people do not moderate with a good intention at heart. They do it because it earns them recognition, trust and reputation. Why do you think everyone automatically accepts a moderator position when they're offered one? The only one who I've seen deny it is Spyike, but it was because he didn't have the time at that point.

Also, you obviously missed the part when FireZ got all arrogant and cocky when he first became moderator. I hoped that he would change after a while, but he's still all the same. Only difference is he hides that side of him now.

Jesus Christ, why are you comparing the cops with the Sythe staff? There's this user who got banned for writing a guide on how to steal from stores. While it does seem that the user might have bad morals, he DID ABSOLUTELY NOTHING WRONG to break the site's rules. A temporary ban would have been far more appropriate if you feel he still deserves punishment. How will he prove his innocence in this case, eh? A lot of people have stolen things in their lives, so are you gonna mass ban everyone and ask them to prove their innocence before unbanning?

This is where the keyword 'possible' comes in. Who the hell are you to make guesses on when a person would scam? Come on, make a guess. When will I scam? Are you going to take that statement as a testimony of my intentions to scam one day? Don't make me laugh. You're not God.

We're not asking for a perfect world here. We're asking for a community where users are not banned based on mere guesses and predictions. Don't think you're all high and mighty because you never scammed. Chances are, you did do something wrong at one point in your life, but you're too afraid to say it.

 

I'm short on time, so this will be fast. Essentially, there needs to be some level of staff pro-activeness when it comes to feedback. There are plenty of times that users simply just post "Bad job, improve", but this simply is not helpful, as you said. However, the staff should make an attempt to contact the user to try to understand the problem at hand. This obviously will never happen in every case, but even just some would be better.

Then there is the trouble as of what to do with the feedback. This is the most important part of it, and the most lacking part. Being able to step back and say, maybe they are right, I am wrong and I need to try to change is hard. However, trying to show yourself that the user feedback may be right could make you really figure out that it is right or maybe not so much. There really just needs to be a willingness to accept it.

I've got to go for now.

@Everyone else: Getting a bit off topic.