To everyone against legalizing marijuana...

Please explain why you believe it should stay illegal as a Schedule I substance under the Controlled Substances Act.

Keep in mind:

• There are 0 reports to date of any deaths by direct use of marijuana
• Marijuana does not kill brain cells, as your brain has cannibinoid receptors to trigger your high. No studies can prove there is any brain damage whatsoever.
• Weed is controlled in urban areas by gangs. These gangs are supported by the income of the weed, which is extremly high. Legalizing weed would cripple a huge chunk of gangs.
• Ounce for ounce, weed is more expensive than gold. One plant grown indoors will average $20,000 a year. There is up to $4 billion floating around unaccounted for in the US because of the illegal weed trade. This has a huge impact on inflation.
• A Schedule I substance is the most severe out of the five schedules. Being a Schedule I substance means that it has a high potential for abuse, has no current accepted medical use in treatment, and there is a lack of accepted safety for use under medical supervision.
  
  Marijuana has no addiction properties whatsoever. There have been zero reports of withdrawal after even the most heavy use for long periods of time.
  There are also proven medical properties, as shown here. This disproves on all three terms that marijuana should not be classified as a Schedule I substance.

Your reasoning?

 

I'm not against the legalizing of marijuana, because it's almost sure that if it happens in USA, in Mexico they'll do the same. And for those who do not know what is currently happening here. Everyday they find bodies in any part of the country with a Drug Cartel related death. More than 30 thousand deaths caused by or related to the Organized Crime during the gobernment of our president.
In my city a candidate to be the gobernator of the state was killed some days before the elections. The insecurity everybody lives with now it's outsanding, you can not see a big truck without fear, i remember my city some years ago on weekends in the night the streets were full of partying people, now at 10 p.m. streets are empty.

In my opinion the only way to stop everything is to legalize marijuana and all the drugs, i want my city back and my country back without the insecurity. I'm seriously thinking of moving away to the U.S. to study my college if the situation does not get better :S

 

The placement of marijuana in the schedule 1 category is extremely debateable. Many people argue that the ranking system is a bit skewed. For example, in the United States, Schedule 2 drugs have some medicinal value and Marijuana is widely accepted as having medicinal qualities. So it's placement is somewhat invalid. Nowhere does it say though that the FDA, the people who get to make the calls on Schedule 1 vs. Schedule 2, backs up that it is a gateway to cocaine.

I am for the legalization of marijuana or at the very least a decriminalization. I don't smoke every single day, and I don't really ever plan to, but I do realize the fact that legalization could have some very positive affects on the United States economy. When prostitution with a license became legalized in Las Vegas, the city's income shot through the roof. It goes without saying, with the taxation of the sales of marijuana and the wide-spread availability the income that could be made off the taxation of the 'drug' could be phenomenal. Keep that in mind though supporters, that will be one of pivotal points in the legalization. That is one of the things that could sway republicans, money.

 

Response to your points: (I've numbered them for easy response)

• 
  #1 is a severely narrow-sighted claim, much like the addiction claim (later to come). Yes, you're technically not incorrect, but it's because of your careful wording. Marijuana has not directly been the cause of death. But directness is hardly significant. You're saying that impaired judgment, increased impulsiveness, tendency to use more extreme drugs, and other indirect side-effects (which all can and do cause death) are insignificant?
  
  On the matter of directness again: Alcohol is known to cause severe diseases in the liver, brain, and even the stomach. Yes, it can directly cause alcohol-poisoning, but the majority of alcohol-related deaths are due to either the damages to the body or the lack of judgment that alcohol imparts. These are all indirectly caused by alcohol, but nonetheless significantly linked to consumption. It's not technically correct to say "There are 0 reports to date of any deaths caused by alcohol," but it is comparatively correct. Your use of "direct" cause of death is, simply put, far too understating the issue.
  
  
  
  
  #2 is similarly narrow-minded. Yes, marijuana doesn't directly reduce the number of brain cells, but it does impair judgment. Additionally, consumption of marijuana indisputably gives a food craving ("munchies"), and the average pothead surely isn't going to calculate and prepare a well-balanced meal. This indirectly leads to more consumption of poorly processed and often fatty foods. Fatty foods do kill brain function.
  
  Red herrings aside, there are several ways to damage the brain without actually reducing the number of brain cells. As a baby, you are born with the full number of brain cells and proceed to lose trillions of cells before adolescence. There is actually only a mild coorelation between the number of brain cells and actual intelligence. The other stuff that matter much more are: brain chemistry, quality of brain cells, efficiency of electrical conduction, etc. So, yes, marijiana has no effect on the number of brain cells. It's far, far, far to simple to say this translates to it having no effect on intelligence.
  
  
  
  
  #3. I do agree that the gangs are a significant issue, and that marijuana trafficking is, more or less, a major part of most inner-city gangs. However, do you really think that the gangs are going to step aside and let another gang (the government, in case you didn't catch that) take over their territory? Gangs are a problem largely because of territory disputes. These gangs are too well-implanted to just step aside and let drug stores sell boxes of marijuana cigarettes. It's much less simple than what you are saying.
  
  
  
  
  #4. Wait, did I read that right? Four BILLION American dollars are involved in Marijuana trafficiking? Did you know billion has nine zeros! A HELLUVA lot of money. I could buy 4 TRILLION RSGP with that much money! No disputes on this point. Illegal marijuana distribution is TERRIBLE.
  
  Wait. The US gross domestic product in 2008 was 15 TRILLION dollars, isn't it? What is 4 billion into 15 trillion? Less than 0.03%. Maybe it's not that big of a deal, after all.
  
  
  -------Also, CaptainMoose referred to taxing the sale of marijuana could be "phenomenal." Adding a $4 billion industry to the economy and taxing it will hardly make a dent in the US budget, which in 2009 was $3.5 trillion.
  
  
  
  
  #5 I've always thought marijuana's status above crack cocaine and those other Schedule IIs was absolutely absurd. However, I think that its status as a Schedule I drug is nearly as ridiculous as this statement from the average, self-interested, idiotic pothead who thinks he can change things with his clever Googling skills:
  
  Yes, I know that there is no physical addiction along the same lines as the "heavy drugs," but if you try and tell me that marijuana's effect on the body isn't addictive, you really shouldn't be going to the polls and voting in the first place, because you're so blind and naive that your vote will just be destructive towards the real progress. Maybe that's why it's continuously turned down?
  
  Know what else isn't addicting? Porn. Spending money. Sex. Playing video games. Playing computer games. Spending time with friends. None of these are, at all, habit-inducing behaviors.
  
  
  
  By the way, one last point that I just realized. Your topic says "To everyone against legalizing marijuana," but your arguments centralize more on its erroneous status as a Schedule I drug. All of Schedule II, Schedule III, Schedule IV, and even Schedule V drugs are illegal except in specific cases. No, I'm not being so broad as to say "Lol even tobacco isillegal to 17 year olds and it's not a Schedule drug at all!"

 

In response to this quote, if marijuana was legalized, the price would drop quite a lot, most likely to around $4.00 a gram for the average weed. This would result in that number you've stated dropping by 60%, so we're really only looking at around 1.75b a year. On the real side of things, weed does not harm your brain, but is a drug in which if you're operating a vehicle while on the drug, you've more of a risk of getting in an accident rather than if you were talking on your cell phone. Weed does however help the intelligence, and creative mind increase by an enormous amount. The statement you said about gangs is true, but weed is only a 6% portion of how their gangs are funded. Most of the money comes from theft, burglary, robbery, Cocaine, Crack, Heroin, Crystal Meth, Xanax, Adderall, Ecstasy, LSD, PCP, Shrooms, and countless more.

As this comes in to consideration, my opinion stands that weed should be legalized, but not for the reasons you've stated.

 

that was one of the best arguments I've seen refuting legalization. The only one I'll disagree with is number 2, how munchies can cause physical problems. Not all weed smokers pig out on munchies after they smoke, many people ignore it or eat healthy things. But you're completely right about the sensation being addictive in a sense that is separate from a technical addiction- if you're going to smoke weed every weekend, or every day, or what have you, why does it even matter that it's not addictive? In reality, there is no difference between being physically compelled to smoke and doing it because you really want to.

I still think that it should be legal, and this is because of the bloody cartels, the gang violence, the opportunity to tax it, and the legality of similar drugs such as alcohol and tobacco- marijuana is like a medium between the two and yet it is illegal. Also, although it can be mentally addictive, it is far less addictive in any sense than tobacco and alcohol. Your arguments stating its health damages would make sense if the other two were illegal, but they're not. And they're taxed. And they provide a very large revenue. Also, weed is overpriced. It'd probably be no more than 10 a g if it were legal...

 

I was somewhat overexaggerating in #2 with the munchies, but it was more to serve a point rather than to prove my point. The point I was serving was that you can look at an extreme view of something and conclude anything. I really don't think munchies is a significant problem at all (most potheads aren't obese, after all), but still. XSafire said that weed does not damage the brain at all, but here is one (albeit extreme) case that scientific knowledge does say it can.

And to get this clear: my stance on legalization is not as negative as my post. My post was more to demonstrate that the arguments he posed are very one-sided and annoyingly stereotypical of most of the pro-legalization garbage you see.

There are several other good arguments for it, and you nailed the best ones on the head and still maintained a reasonable argument (i.e., one without oversimplifications, glorifications, and generalizations). I can agree that it is comparable in severity to alcohol and cigarettes in most cases. This is the biggest reason I disagree with its illegal status. If weed is illegal, tobacco and alcohol should be. I understand somewhat the colossal historical precedent impeding movement of any of those three substances, but it simply doesn't make logical sense. Frankly put, really the only reason it is illegal is likely because the government thinks that tobacco and alcohol should be, but there's no what that'll ever happen.


BTW, OP hasn't come back with any reply. =|

 

Direct or indirect, the amount of deaths attributed to marijuana use or intoxication is moot in comparison to the amount of deaths that can be attributed to alcohol or other legal substances.

Having food cravings in no way implies that you're going to consume less healthy foods than you eat during your sober state. If you have "fatty foods" in your house then you're going to eat them at some point anyway, and chances are you weren't experiencing food cravings when you bought them. I've eaten cereal, bananas, apples, like 20 tangerines before. I even had a craving for salad once. This argument is absurd.

Sure there are other ways to permanently hurt your brain besides reducing the amount of brain cells. But there is no proof that marijuana does any of this either. So thanks for the lesson on neurology, but what OP said is still perfectly valid.

The recent bill that failed in California (prop 19) would have legalized the growth of marijuana for personal use. The government would be in no way involved. Also the government taxes everything from your juice boxes to your fruits and vegetables. That hardly makes the government a "gang".

Hood rats who grow plants in their basements are not going to fight wars against the government for territory. And if they do, they sure as hell aren't going to win.

You expect gangs to go after small smoke shops and murder their owners?:nuts:

I have no clue what the real numbers are, but 4 billion seems way off. If you're going to count money you have to include how much will be saved by not prosecuting those currently growing and using marijuana. I'm way too lazy to look all these numbers up, but I'm pretty sure more than $4 billion is at stake here.

Marijuana can by psychologically addictive, but so can every single thing you just listed. Yet none of those things are illegal but marijuana is? I don't see how any of this serves an argument to why marijuana should be illegal.

Hell, from personal experience I'll say that marijuana is less addictive than everything you posted.

Baby steps. Marijuana shouldn't be illegal in the first place, but since it's obvious some people don't understand that it's much easier to guide them through the process. First step being to make them understand that at the very least it does not belong in the Schedule I list.

 

OP, might want to add to your dispute that alcohol does more damage to your brain cells, and leads to more deaths per year than Marijuana abuse, and IS legal.

Two recent studies have been published showing that alcohol -- a legal substance (though not legal for teens in the U.S.) -- is considered more dangerous than marijuana, which is illegal in many countries.

 

Don't legalize it, decriminalize it.

 

I agree that it should not be legalized necessarily, but it should be decriminalized. It should not be illegal to have it on you, or in your vehicle. Sadly it is, they use it as a legal substance, which really the only reason it still is illegal/criminalized is so that the 'drug task force' have an easy target to get their pay check each week. They cannot target meth or crack heads, so they simple target harmless pot smokers like myself.. ( I was set up for a 5th degree sales of marijuana... what a fucking joke )

 

I used to smoke it only for about 1 year, I can honestly say I have become a lot less focused, I keep forgetting things constantly, as in I will call someones name then completely forget what I was going to say, I can never work in an environment where I might get distracted, there are a tone of other things to.
I was perfect before I smoked weed, although my intelligence hasn't dropped my attitude and memory somewhat has.

 

Yes, but the OP didn't say that. Also, the use of "alcohol and other legal substances" dwarfs that of marijuana, am I not mistaken? It makes sense that those substances' deaths is much higher.

This argument was mainly to prove that the OP's argument was absurd. All you need to do is prove one instance--no matter how far-fetched--to disprove a statement like the OP's.

See the post above mine... There's one testimony already. Want me to actually research it? I doubt the evidence is hard to find.

Do you think the gangs will make it easy to obtain seeds? Do you think the gangs are going to step aside and just give the industry away? I don't know what the gangs will do, but I do know that the marijuana/drug industry involves considerable violence. I don't have the heinous mind that these drug lords have, so I don't know what they will do.

Also, the government doesn't touch my juice boxes, or my fruits, or my vegetables once they hit store shelves, thank you very much. The taxation they do do is more of a general excise/import/corporate/etc. tax anyway, which is hardly relevant to this issue.

Please get the numbers. I'd be unimpressed unless it was 100b or more.

This is mostly irrelevant. My post was to debunk the OP's statements that MARIJUANA HAS NO ADDICTIVE PROPERTIES WHATSOEVER. Still, marijuana's addictions are often quite severe. It's called a gateway drug because people become addicted to the psychological feeling of the high, and then become tolerant to the high, and then experiment with other drugs to get high again. This might be a minority of smokers, but it still happens.

I agree in the most part, to be honest. ^_^

 

Marijuana does not have long term affects on the body, other than damaging your lungs and arsophagus.

That happens to everyone. It's not because of the marijuana, and since you say it happens constantly, you may have some other problem you're unaware of.

Once again, marijuana doens't have any long term affects on issues with the mind.

Thats a lie first of all, seeing as nobody is perfect. Second, marijuana doesn't affect your attitude or memory.

^^^^^^^^---- (Quote from drugpolicy.org)

 

This thread is eventually going to turn into mild flame.

But I think it should stay illegal,most people that smoke weed are PROVEN to never mature.They smoke weed every day,spend every bit of extra money they have on it.And basically miss out on lots of more important hobbies.

You can try to prove me wrong but i've seen this first hand,to atleast 15 people or more.

Not to mention people that smoke weed seem to grow away from their friends that don't smoke weed and even their parents.

 

An ounce of marijuana is not worth more than an ounce of gold, kid.

Where the fuck did you get your numbers?

An ounce of chronic isn't even 1/3rd of the price of an ounce of gold.

Also, an you're only gonna get 20 grand off of a plant if you do it perfect, (get a great strain, use good nutrients, feed them co2, and the soil has to be tip top) and all of that is still only achievable if it's an outdoor plant. Don't expect to get any more than 5 oz. for an EXCELLENT job from an indoor plant (even with a 6 foot plant) and all of these assumptions are assuming the grower did a perfect job and knows his shit. (also growing region plays a big impact, don't expect to grow a 2 lb outdoor plant in Kentucky)

Realistically though, the average grower would get MUCH less per plant.

 

Instead of being so rude, you could share with us your knowledge in a more civilized way..

I'm pretty sure he didn't pull out these numbers out of nowhere.

 

Correction: Smoking marijuana is harmful to your lungs and throat, as is smoking almost anything.

 

I'm assuming this is to intimate that not smoking is, thus, not harmful? That's a false dilemma, my friend. (I'm not gonna do a Sythe and sardonically post a wiki link. If you don't know what a false dilemma is, you can look it up, but I won't insult your intelligence by assuming you don't even know how to Google.)

Consuming anything can be harmful to your health. An apple a day keeps the doctor away, but ten apples a day gives you cancer.

 

I personally do Believe that Marijuana should be legal. XSafire you bring up very good points on why it should be legal while KeroKeroCola you bring up good counter arguments.
I think Point 3 from Xsafire is the biggest flawed argument only because Marijuana is only part of many other drugs (more valuable) that gangs sell. Though, if you legalize it you can start to prevent younger people going to these gangs to buy the substance in the first place. If marijuana is at a store, it would be easier to obtain it and you would start to affect Gangs one step at a time.

Obviously, there are arguments for almost every possible thing you can post but I feel that it should be legal. When comparing Marijuana (illegal) to Alcohol (legal) there are flaws but you can see that the effects of both and I personally feel that alcohol is more dangerous than Marijuana. Again, there are millions of arguments for each argument posted.

P.S. Sorry for any grammar issues as I hate it very much and don't care if you try to correct me. =D