To all christians

Oh, aren't you funny? I'm pretty sure religion is the opposite of ignorance.

Adam isn't God's son, so to speak. So yes, Adam could sin, but that doesn't make God a sinner. Jesus, on the other hand, is God's son. That's why He never sinned.

I'm not "enforcing" my beliefs.

I never imagined people would be inclined to believe so.

Yes, God commanded them to write His word.

 

How is religion the opposite of ignorance? You are dedicating your life to something you can only BELIEVE in.

 

I am not practicing any religion, my wife is Christian and I was brought up Roman-Catholic, so my response doesn't lean towards any particular religion. That being said Religion is much more than just a belief or system of beliefs, it's framework for ethical behavior and morality.

I am currently in a spiritual limbo. I see people that truly believe in their religion and actually practice their beliefs and they have more of serene composure when it comes to life versus people that don't have any kind of Religious beliefs or deep spirituality. And I'm not talking about the people knocking at your door or preaching in your local park. I am just talking about people who live life compassionate, caring, conscious of society around them and how their actions affect those people.

There will always be people who use religion for their own personal benefits which is ignorant in the fact those people don't know or don't care how their actions will affect others. (My stab at why someone would think religion and ignorance fall in the same slot)

 

Ignorance: The act of not knowing. We know God is real.

 

Prove it.

 

In all these religious debates in this forum, I've been trying to say this in many different ways. You said it better than I could've.

 

Prove he isn't real.

Wait, what? You can't?

 

Good point. People who use religion for their own benefits aren't following their religion correctly.

 

"prove it"

I understand your skepticism and reluctance to accept religious beliefs, I was once skeptical about religion and spirituality myself. Like I said before I was born into a very devote Roman-Catholic family. I went to Sunday school every week before we went to church, I was an altar boy, and I went to a private Catholic elementary school.

I tried to find every fault, inconsistency, and contradiction I could to disprove or falsify my Catholic upbringing. I did this in somewhat of a rebellion, but mainly because I didn't understand.

"Put all your beliefs aside, and look at your religion." Belief and faith is an integral part of religion/spirituality, putting it aside isn't an option.But if I did put aside my beliefs I still know that there is a being that created all this. I can't even begin to comprehend or imagine anything about that being, but I know. How do I know? I just open my eyes and see the world in all it's marvels and complexities.

That being said.

"Put all your beliefs aside, and look at your religion." Instead try this. Put all the superficial things in your life aside: your computer, cell phone, PDA, ps3, television, car, etc... Then look at yourself.

I personally feel that with religion and spirituality individuals and the people they interact with, live happier and healthier lives. Again I refer to people that actually practice their beliefs and not just show up to a sermon or say they are a Buddhist to be cool. People that dedicate themselves to believing in a religion or people that have come to a deep spiritual understanding are more apt to be an active member in their community and be involved with what's going on around them in society.

I feel that our relationships with the people we interact with in our lives is more important than anything. How we relate to our spouses, parents, siblings, aunts, uncles, etc. How we treat our personal relationships with friends and co-workers. Does your family have a loving relationship? Do you inconvenience yourself or go out of your way to help people around you? I personally would like to, and could do more.

For a long time I wasn't the happiest person and I was even diagnosed with depression. I started to look at my life and wonder why I was in such a crap state of mind when everything was good. I have money, I have great health, I have everything I can pretty much ask for, so why? I am a self-serving and self-absorbed person, and I have been known to be an asshole.

I started to research some philosophy and psychology to find some answers; I studied different religions and some religious texts to find answers. I really didn't find anything that helped me personally. I discovered that through my studies I have developed a better understand of things, in regards to religion and spirituality. I really feel that with the better understanding I have about these things it has made me more spiritual.

Even though all these religions differ there are an enormous amount of similarities in ALL the religions, so I am assuming that these trends in all these religions must have some validity.

Religion and spirituality is something very personal, although people share in their religious beliefs with people that share in those same beliefs, it's still something personal about it.

I find that people that are very skeptical about religion or the ones that are very defensive about their personal beliefs are the ones that truly don't believe or understand.

Religion and spirituality isn't something that can be cataloged, proved, or solved. It's something you need to explore and nurture for yourself.

Do yourself a favor and set aside your skepticism and just do some reading, you just may get enlightened. I found my own spirituality and hopefully a path to religion through doing this. I also sat down with a few different clergy members to ask a few questions; Pastor from a non-denominational church, minister from a Baptist church, Catholic priest, and I even went out of town to speak with a Buddhist monk.

I may never find a religion that I can truly "believe" in, but I can find spirituality and in my experience people with the most profound and deepest sense of spirituality have found it in some kind of religion.

These are just my personal views, not stating anything as fact.

 

I never said 'I know he's not real.' You specifically said, "We know he's real." You can't prove it, so you can't say that.

I don't believe he's real, you BELIEVE he is.

 

@OneEyd I was a devoted Christian for my entire life until I turned 16. Then one day while I was in Church, I realized that all it is is a guy getting sweaty while yelling about the same stuff over and over and over.

Then I thought about, what if I had been born in the Middle East. Would I still be Christian?

And another thought came to mind, about half the world is Christian, what happens to the other half? They all go to Hell just because they don't believe in Christianity?

How is that fair?

And once again another though. Half of the people in that room with me were just drones. They just said Amen when expected, sang when expected, clapped when expected, and so on. Half of them didn't even follow what they were listening to. They just went to church, left, and never thought about it again.

I did what you said, I set EVERYTHING of mine aside, sat outside, and thought about my life. I came to the realization that I AM happy. I have a wonderful family that I get to spend every day with, I have amazing friends that all love to hang out, I may not have a ton of money, but I am satisfied with what I have. I don't want to know what happens after death, and I really don't care. Whatever happens, happens.

 

Delusion: a false belief or opinion

Prove that fairies aren't real. Prove that Santa Claus isn't real. Prove that dragons aren't real.

 

@Itsz Me

I think you completely missed the point of what I was saying. Firstly, when I speak of religion I am broadening it to more than just Christianity. Although I grew up Catholic and I am exposed to Christianity I don't see either of these being the one true religion. You have to understand that the bible was re-written and translated, so many things are probably lost in translation from the original text. I don't believe that sitting is a church, mosque, or whatever the case may be is the only way or place to practice religious or spiritual beliefs.

Your clearly skeptical or apprehensive of religion by this statement alone.
"How is religion the opposite of ignorance? You are dedicating your life to something you can only BELIEVE in." - Itz Me

That statement tells me enough.

Going to church doesn't mean your devoted. The people in the Middle-East still believe in a religion, Islam, that have many of the same practices. I say practices instead of beliefs because although all these religions out there tell a different story: Islam, Christianity, Orthodox, Buddhist, Hinduism, Jainism, and others, they all have the same underlying themes of morality, values, and ethics. This is one reason we don't have cannibals running around.

If you live a good life with good relationships and everything is great, then your good to go. Not everyone is so self-assured about their life.

Maybe I am writing this post not just as a response to you but for my own self-exploration and maybe open someones eyes that might be a bit cloudy.

Religion is a good way for people that need guidance or want to live a certain way, to get that help or guidance. Congregations, ministries, or whatever you want to call them, usually look after one another and help each other.

I believe, now, that our time on Earth should be spent on more than just a hobby or a job. I don't know what it is, thats something I am trying to explore. But I believe we were created for some reason beyond my own interests.

The world is crumbling around us and I sit here, while I have the means and ability to do more about it, I don't. People around me in society are hurting, I have the means and ability to help them, I don't. This is one reason I seek more in regards to Religion and Spirituality, and don't completely disregard it as ignorant.

 

I have thought about more than just Christianity, I've looked at every religion I know of, I've read the Qu'ran, the Bible, the Torah, etc.(I read the non-Christian books after I pulled away from Christianity)

The only religion that doesn't imply the 'our way or the highway' theory is Buddhism.(possibly Hinduism, I just don't want to be reborn as a cow) Buddhism focuses on self enlightenment and Karma, while Christianity, Islam, Judiasm, and other Monotheistic religions imply that if you don't believe in that specific religion, follow it's ways, and devote your whole life to it, then you will go to Hell.

I just can't buy into that theory.

IF that wasn't the way the Bible was originally written, then I would possibly reconsider. But as of now, I'm keeping my views on Christianity.

As for having a happy life, yeah I think I'm good.

However, I do agree with you on the fact that we were created for some reason. I want to find out what it is.

 

Do you have a study which shows that religious places are less prone to cannibalism, or are you just making this bullshit up as you go?

You refuse to help people, so you seek religion? This is completely illogical.

 

Have you ever heard of anyone being eaten in a church? The civilized world has been accomplished not only through the shear power of a conquering force but with religion as a major influence. This is usually taught in many history and civilization classes of all sorts, and in high school, and in movies, and in cartoons......

"while I have the means and ability to do more about it"

I don't refuse to help people. I actually volunteer at a couple places currently, I would like to do more but a lot of times I just want to sit around and do other things when I feel I can do more.

I thought what I said was pretty clear. Maybe you should read slower.

 

Have you ever heard of the Maya? Thats not cannibalism, but its basically the same thing. Religion hurts more people than it helps. Terrorists, the Crusades, the Pyramids.

 

What you left out are the little things that happen every single day, that religion does to help the less fortunate. Such as my church alone gives groceries to 25 homeless/less fortunate people a day. Churches host food drives, clothes drives, soup kitchens, they hand out free turkeys on Thanksgiving every single year. All those little things add up, to help WAY more people than it hurts.

 

Great point. You see, religion isn't hurting anyone, and isn't trying to.

 

I just skimmed over: http://rationaldreaming.com/2010/04/19/are-religious-people-more-charitable-than-non-believers/.

I will accept that religious people, on a whole, give at higher percents than secular individuals. However, this higher charity percent can be easily explained by a few factors.

1. Trusted, respected individual / group telling people to give - This would be a priest telling people to give to a cause. Since he is a trusted member of a community, the church, and people look up to him, they are more likely to donate. Secular people, missing this community, do not get the same amount of pressure to donate.
2. Peer pressure - You don't want to be the only member of your Church that doesn't give do you?
3.

I'l stop there. The religious part of religion isn't what makes people donate, and thus, the religion itself really has no role to play in it.