Why I believe Kobe is better than MJ

In my opinion, Kobe is better than Michael Jordan. I shall explain my reasoning.

You can say the MJ has more MVP trophys, but that shit is overrated.
THE MVP trophy is absolutely bull shit. It proves it during the 05-06 season when he broke many milestones and had his amazing 81 Point game performance and the 35.3 PPG average.

Kobe's First 3 rings don't count, he had shaq. Lmao don't give me that bull shit, during the 3peat, he had 29.9 PPG average, 26.9 PPG average, and a 32.9 PPG average. That's more than fucking contributing.

Today's NBA is far more competitive. Not only does Kobe have to deal with zone, he goes up against taller, bigger and stronger defenders than Jordan ever did. Back in the 80's most of the shooting guards Jordan played against were 6''2 to 6''4. Kobe can shoot over shorter players like that with unbelievable efficiency, yet he plays against players that are 6''5 to 6''9. In the 80s, outside of a few good teams (Lakers, Celtics, Pistons, Knicks) there was really not that much competition. Today, even the worst teams in the league are good and can hold their own with any team they face.

Sure, the 80's was a more physical brand of basketball. But physicality, doesn't translate into effectiveness. If you ask any great scorer which is harder:

1) Playing with double and triple teams or
2) Having to deal with stiff-arms and armbars

they would chose the former. And furthermore, you think Kobe doesn't face armbars/stiff-arms? How can you guard Kobe without using your hands? It's impossible. With the rules the way they are, Kobe should be getting two free throws on almost every trip down.

Kobe plays in the modern defensive era of traps, doubles, and zone. From 2001, the NBA effectively legalized zone, thus discouraging 1-on-1 play. Compare this to MJ's weaker era, where he had the luxury of playing "iso" all game long. Kobe can't even post up without getting doubled.


E: I also found this quote on espn ". I'd also argue the Celtics teams Kobe lost to in 2008 and defeated in 2010 were better than any of the clubs Jordan defeated in the Finals.

But that's the only thing I'm giving Kobe over Jordan. "

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2010/columns/story?columnist=broussard_chris&page=kobe-100618

 

WHO THE FUCK cares


NBA REFS ARE SHIT

 

You missed out his shooting percentages. How selfish he was during the 04 finals against the Pistons when Shaq was receiving single coverage, not double teams, and shooting his team out of the finals. How he let his team in '08 to lose a great lead, and got blown up in Game 6 of the NBA finals. How Phil and some other great coaches said that Michael would average 50 points a game if he played in today's game. How Michael managed to fight through the Pistons' bad boys in the Eastern Conference Finals in '90, and sweeping them 4-0 and fighting good and physical defensive teams such as the Heat, Knicks, Pistons. In return, how did Kobe managed against superior defensive teams? Do I really need to search for the percentages in the finals?


Are you kidding about the double teams or triple teams? Michael got them all the time in the 80s from good defensive teams. Kobe got that from who? Remind me again how 'efficient' he was in the playoffs? Yup. 44% in 00, 47% in 01 and 43% in 03. Where did you get the stats from? Clearly in '00 he's still a young Kobe, averaging a mere 21.1ppg, followed by 29.4ppg then 26.6ppg in that three peat from 00-02. And a lot of those percentage is shooting well in the Western Conference, notably the Spurs. But other than that, shooting with 'ease'? Really? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:


Michael shot 50% from the field in his prime, with handchecks and no defensive 3 second rule. Clearly in this era, David Stern wanted another 'Jordan brand', in hope to have another great perimeter star. That is why you see the likes of Kobe, Lebron, D Wade scoring a bunch and driving easily without any one stopping them. What about Michael? He had to go through hard fouls that are now fragrant fouls now. So is the 90s or the 00s the superior era? :noworry:


Again, you need to take off your homerism cap and actually start thinking before coming up with a bullshit post like this. I bet you are one of the kids who have only recently watched the NBA games and jumped onto the bandwagon ever since Lakers won the championship in 2009. I do hope that you can youtube some of the games and broaden your horizon. I hope that post was a 'in the moment' thing or a copy and pasta job inspired momentarily. Please tell me that you regret posting this.

 

Jordan always had great teams in the Finals. The 08 Lakers didn't have a Scottie-like player.

Stern made the 3-second rules/hand checking to make the game more competitive.

I also agree the 00-09 NBA is softer then the 50s-90s. 70s-80s was the rough patch though

The seasons MVP is determined by teams more then players. The player just has to have the motivation/will to push the team to its maximum potential.

98-03 (I think) were the years where Shaq was the face of the NBA.

1999–00 L.A. Lakers 23 23 43.5 .566 .000 .456 15.4 3.1 .6 2.4 30.7
2000–01 L.A. Lakers 16 16 42.3 .555 .000 .525 15.4 3.2 .4 2.4 30.4
2001–02 L.A. Lakers 19 19 40.8 .529 .000 .649 12.6 2.8 .5 2.5 28.5

Those are Shaq's numbers from the 3peat.

1999–00 L.A. Lakers 22 22 39.0 .442 .344 .754 4.5 4.4 1.5 1.5 21.1
2000–01 L.A. Lakers 16 16 43.4 .469 .324 .821 7.3 6.1 1.6 .8 29.4
2001–02 L.A. Lakers 19 19 43.8 .434 .379 .759 5.8 4.6 1.4 .9 26.6

Kobe's numbers for comparing.

Shaq was more consistent, but neither could win those 3 titles without each other.

Kobe's NBA Finals numbers


(Order is mpg, FG% 3pt% FT% Offensive boards Defensive boards, RPG APG BPG TO FPG PPG)

99-00 couldn't find for some reason
00-01 46.8 .415 .333 .842 1.00 6.80 7.80 5.8 1.40 1.40 3.60 3.00 24.6
01-02 43.8 .514 .545 .806 .80 5.00 5.80 5.3 1.50 .75 3.75 2.80 26.8

03-04 46.2 .381 .174 .920 .40 2.40 2.80 4.4 1.80 .60 3.60 3.00 22.6

07-08 43 .405 .321 .796 1.30 3.30 4.70 5.0 2.67 .17 3.83 3.20 25.7
08-09 43.8 .430 .360 .841 .60 5.00 5.60 7.4 1.40 1.40 3.20 2.60 32.4
09-10 41.1 0.405 0.319 0.883 1.7 6.3 8.0 3.9 2.1 0.7 3.9 3.9 28.6

Shaqs NBA Finals' Numbers

99-00 couldn't find for some reason
00-01 45.0 .573 .000 .513 6.20 9.60 15.80 4.8 .40 3.40 4.00 4.00 33.0
01-02 41.5 .595 .000 .662 3.30 9.00 12.30 3.8 .50 2.75 3.50 1.80 36.3


03-04 42.6 .631 .000 .491 3.00 7.80 10.80 1.6 .40 .60 2.80 4.40 26.6

05-06 35.2 .607 .000 .292 2.50 7.70 10.20 2.8 .50 .83 3.17 3.70 13.7

Wade NBA Finals' Numbers (Involves Shaq)

05-06 43.5 .468 .273 .773 2.00 5.80 7.80 3.8 2.67 1.00 3.67 3.70 34.7

EDIT: COPYING/PASTING/FINDING STATS=PAIN IN THE ASS.


Even though Jordan>Pippen, Pippen was statistically better then Jordan. Can't find the article though. It was a very complex process involving every stat possible including PER.

 

Basketball skills have changed a LOT in the time that MJ played, and now Kobe. You can say what you want, but IMO unless you could put both of them in a 1v1 when they were both at the TOP of their game, theres no way to know. Same thing with the whole Kobe and Lebron deal, neither one of them is 100% better than the other.

 

He also has more Titles, AND Finals MVPS than Kobe.

It was still Shaqs team. Jordan won all 6 of his rings on his team.

Where are you getting your info from? Your just making up numbers.

Umm...? Zone is still illegal.

The Nets sure were a great team....

1) Double teams weren't just invited
2) This isn't football.

Pierce was shutting him down in 08, and Bruce Bowen was known for shutting Kobe down in the playoffs every time the Lakers, and Spurs meet.

Zone is still illegal.

Did you not see the bottom? that person is still saying Jordan is better than Kobe.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs/2010/columns/story?columnist=broussard_chris&page=kobe-100618

 

1 occasion puts Kobe down low- Kobe requested a trade after a bad season. Jordan stuck with it, he's greater.

Greater people don't leave after a bad season; they try to improve the team with the best of their power. That's why Lefraud's brand was hurt - Kobe considered the option and the Lakers wouldn't do it. The fact that he would do it, shows why Jordan is better.

 

I agree with the fact that players in the NBA are getting bigger, taller, and stronger. Coaching and conditioning has improved resulting in better defense throughout the league. Kobe has it harder than Jordan, but you can't deny that Jordan was a great player. Honestly, comparing two of the best players in different decades is kind of pointless.

 

Kobe is a good player, but MJ was easily better. Both era's are completely different. Your "facts" are flawed.

 

Kobe and Jordan played in two different era.
Rules are different, court are different, ball are different, lots of things are different
It will be hard to compare the two based on stats because that is simply unfair.

I would say MJ gets the upper hand, but I think Kobe will be really close. If Kobe can maintain his style of play and manage to produce even at the age of 35(like Jordan did), he will be EVEN closer to Jordan.
Both of them are very fundamentally sounded. However, Kobe got a small hand which possibly takes away some of his ability.

 

I remember one year in the finals where Scottie Pipeen injured his back, and was not his usual self for a few games. Vintage Jordan carried the whole team in the final game to the win and the championship trophy. The Lakers had one of the best bench that year with low post presence in Pau Gasol. It's too bad he turned into Gasolina. Michael would never have allowed that to happen to Scottie.

Really? If anything, it makes perimeter players have a much easier time to dribble past their defender and finish it without fearing that there is a 7 feet centre waiting for them. So it's more competitive when perimeter stars like Wade can score easier?

The '70s league was really a watered down era. Who was there? "Lew" Alcindor, Jr, Bill Walton and some ABA stars like Dr. J and Moses Malone. No one else was really there.

And your point is? Shaq is a superior player when he is at his prime? No one could stop him in his absolute peak.

So now we have to use PER? Please do not use that to compare players because it is a shit stat. Pippen was a better sole defender but really, Jordan is a better help defense player and better in other aspects of the game, which include intangibles as well. Any one who says Pippen is superior to Jordan is a bitter Scottie/Kobe fan.

 

Kobe Bryant had knee injury, finger injury, back spasms and still led his team to a championship.

Kobe's stats during the 3peat:

Year Team G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG
00-01 LAL 16 16 43.4 0.469 0.324 0.821 1.8 5.4 7.3 6.1 1.6 0.8 3.19 3.31 29.4
01-02 LAL 19 19 43.8 0.434 0.379 0.759 1.5 4.4 5.8 4.6 1.4 0.9 2.84 3.42 26.6
02-03 LAL 12 12 44.3 0.432 0.403 0.827 1.3 3.8 5.1 5.2 1.2 0.1 3.50 2.92 32.1

 

Though it was different times there's no way to truly know unless they played each-other in a match. Though the opponents were different its still up to debate.

 

They played eachother in 2002 I think and Kobe dropped 55 on him... even though he was 37 years old I believe.

LMAO, zone is legal; you obviously don't know basketball.

 

You might have read this post already, but I encourage you to read it again. Notice how I posted various videos in this post, and videos say a ton more than words. So, I encourage you to watch and analyze these videos. Hopefully, after you have done such, you will witness how great MJ actually was.

P.S. You seem to underestimate how great of a defensive player Jordan was. I'll let this video explain (which was from 2009 BTW): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u69SCU79_O0&feature=related

Speaking of defence, both the defences from 1988-1993 and from 2000-2010 have their strengths and weaknesses. However, it is tough to compare all the defences overall simply because each team had unique strategies. Nevertheless, anyone who has witnessed the badboys pistons era will say that the 88-90 had less-arguably the BEST defence of all time (in fact, the present era Celtics pale in comparison to the Pistons in defence). In addition, their "Jordan Rules" defence was only meant for one purpose: to stop Michael Jordan. Notice that in the playoff games vs. the detroit pistons from 1988-1991, EVERYONE except MJ averaged horrible numbers, including Scottie Pippen. If you want to know more about the Jordan Rules, read what Chuck Daly said in an interview:

"If Michael was at the point, we forced him left and doubled him. If he was on the left wing, we went immediately to a double team from the top. If he was on the right wing, we went to a slow double team. He could hurt you equally from either wing—hell, he could hurt you from the hot-dog stand—but we just wanted to vary the look. And if he was on the box, we doubled with a big guy.

The other rule was, any time he went by you, you had to nail him. If he was coming off a screen, nail him. We didn't want to be dirty—I know some people thought we were—but we had to make contact and be very physical."

And BTW, it irritates me when you imply that MJ wasn't doubled much while Kobe is doubled all the time. Nearly EVERY team had double-triple teams against Jordan except notably a few teams who left Jordan one-on-one near the 3 point line to shoot his long-range jumpers (the 3 point line was further back then).

I watch Kobe quite often and I can assure you that he is nowhere NEAR doubled as often as Michael was.

 

Michael > Kobe.

 

you think hes better because your a lakers fan. But mj is still the best.

 

Okay, I think we found the thread with the most "long posts" in a while, and I'm from the EU - making me understand, about 0.5% of what you just wrote.
Sorry for the spam, but I just wanted to put it out there.

 

Kobe>All

 

I admit Kobe is good, but I'm 24 I grew up loving MJ.

Now only way to tell is look at each players teams say when MJ in the late 80s averaged 30ppg and same goes with Kobe. Realisticly since MJ's days the NBA has been kinda on a downhill slide so I give MJ the edge.

Ya'll also fail to realize MJ took a year off to play baseball in 94-95 and in the season before and after he avg's 30ppg.

Not to mention MJ came back after 3 year retirement to play for the Wiz and still avg'd 20ppg at 35+