Why you can't make abortion illegal

So you think when a women aborts a baby it doesn't affect the father in various cases? i believe it does, seeing as many times the girl and guy get into an arguement and split up, the man may still want something to do with having the child.

as well as, as it being legal it is more widely done and accepted among some people, but if it was illegal some women would not be able to do it themselves or have access to have someone else do it.

And last of all, how wouldn't the heroin being legal affect other people other than the user. your arguement is relying on the fact that some people did things before abortion was legal, but use common sense, that doesn't mean every person that would have an abortion at the moment would go as far as doing it theirselves if they didn't have a legal place to go and have it done, just as a lot of people are afraid to try certain drugs or don't have access to it, though if it was legalized it would be more widely accepted and used. sure making it illegal wouldnt stop everyone, but it would make a difference, and your stating your arguement as if it would make no difference, i suggest you use a little common sense before trying to debate this.

 

If there was a way to use heroin safely, I see no reason why using it in such a manner should be illegal.

 

In an early stage, i don't give a fuck. But later, it resembles a human.

I know you have no disregard for a human life, so debating with you is pointless.

 

Most of the time, the man is the one who doesn't want anything to do with the child. And the baby is physically attached to the mother, she would have to go through 9 months of labor, and another 18 years of caring for it, so I think she out of all people should decide what to do with it.

They will find a way. If you watched the videos I posted, most of those women were willing to risk their life to get rid of the pregnancy, and they did. It's really not that hard to do it yourself, just stick a coat hanger in there or a tube and blow it out. Many women with unwanted pregnancies did this and many of them died of infection.

Show me how it will affect someone other than the user.

If heroin was legalized, I still wouldn't go smoke it because I know it's horrible for your health, and I know many people would say the same thing. I don't do heroin because it's illegal, but because it's bad for you. And if someone does start doing heroin and becomes an addict, then it's their fault for not doing enough research on it and it's effects, not the heroin's fault. And it's extremely easy to get these drugs, just ask around or go to downtown and ask around on a street corner.

And watch the videos. If a woman has an unwanted pregnancy, that means she is doomed to 18 years of her life to do something she doesn't want, so risking her life to get rid of this problem is well worth it. Watch the videos, all of these women would have risked their life to get rid of their pregnancy, and most of them did. It's not hard to do by yourself, but extremely dangerous. Just get a coat hanger or a plastic tube and stick it in there.

And don't talk about this "common sense" bullshit, it has no place in intelligent debate.

The abortion debate is like debating if the color red is better or if the color blue is better, it is entirely a matter of opinion. Look at it this way, a living human to me has to be able to breathe and have a heart beat, so anything from birth up is a human to me. A fetus has a heart beat, but it gets it's oxygen through it's mother's blood. So the fetus has half the criteria for me to classify it as a human. The pro-lifer would say, "well it still has some of the criteria to be a human so abortion is still murder", and the pro-choicer would say, "well since it has some of the criteria, the decision if it's a human or not is entirely opinion, so I would let the mother decide since it's her child."

A fetus is a human but not quite, some people think that little bit that makes it human makes it fully human, and other people think that the qualities it is lacking makes it not human. This is entirely up to opinion and that is why this debate will never end.

 

Dam Prayer Noobs,

It can affect someone other than the user of the drug due to it can affect there family and household. if you feel it doesn't you are obviously ignorant.

Also, even though some people would go to any extent to preform an abortion even if it was illegal, everyone wouldn't.

Also, please show me the place you obtained your information regarding the man is the one usually not wanting anything to do with it, because im pretty sure most abortions aren't inspired by the man.

I don't see how you can tell yourself every women would go as far as some did to preform an abortion if it was illegal, you are selecting a small number compared to the number of people that would and using that as your arguement.

 

Contraception is a completely different issue and has almost nothing to do with this debate.

Sperm has the potential to be human, but only if it fertilizes an egg. As soon as that egg is fertilized, however, it not only has the potential to be human, it is going to be human (assuming nothing goes wrong down there...).

 

Presumably because once the cells start hanging out in the womb together, it's a human life & has rights.

Sorry about derailing the thread a little bit, but I think you can show that abortion should be accepted, and not considered murder.
The mother owns herself, right? Therefore, she has the right to remove anything from her body at any time. Whether the fetus has rights or not is irrelevant - it's in the mother's body.

But then people will commit crimes and mug old people to get money for drugs! *dramatic gasp*

 

If I chug a bottle of Advil in an attempt to commit suicide, it would affect my family and household. If I go hang myself with a rope, it would affect my family and household. So should Advil and ropes be illegal? It's not the Advil's and rope's fault that they nearly killed the user, but it's the action of the user that did it.

It's not the heroin's fault that it is being injected into somebody, it's the user's fault. It's the user's responsibility to know what the fuck he is doing to himself and if he or she doesn't then it is his/her fault for not taking precautions.

And before you go around calling people ignorant, take some time to actually think about the matter.

http://eurpub.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/reprint/11/2/190.pdf

"Conclusions: During the study period a significant proportion of reproductive-aged Spanish women had abortions in England and Wales and The Netherlands. Decriminalization has had no observed effect on the trends in abortion, but rather it has benefited Spanish women by making abortion available locally and, therefore, reducing the inequalities implied by lack of access to proper health care services."

So much for common sense eh?

Um dude, are you retarded? Obviously the man isn't going to beg her to get an abortion, he is just going to run away and leave her to solve her own problem. This is that "common sense" that you were talking about.

This is in Argentina, where abortion is illegal:

"In 1995, some 53,000 hospital admissions due to complications caused by abortions practiced in unsanitary conditions were registered in this Southern Cone country of 37 million. By 2000, that number had climbed to 79,000, a 50 percent increase."

"Abortion is illegal and punishable by prison in Argentina. Obstetricians say an increasing number of women are turning in desperation to self-induced or "home" abortions, frequently arriving at the hospital seriously ill, and risking the loss of their uterus and ovaries, and even death."

http://www.corpwatch.org/article.php?id=5888

Only 79,000 illegal abortions a year? Yeah that's a pretty small number.

So in conclusion, you are a fucking idiot. Do some research and pull your head out of your ass, because obviously you don't know shit about anything.

 

So if heroin is illegal, and has no beneficial purposes, then why do people still use it?

http://eurpub.oxfordjournals.org/cgi...t/11/2/190.pdf

"Conclusions: During the study period a significant proportion of reproductive-aged Spanish women had abortions in England and Wales and The Netherlands. Decriminalization has had no observed effect on the trends in abortion, but rather it has benefited Spanish women by making abortion available locally and, therefore, reducing the inequalities implied by lack of access to proper health care services."

Women are going to get abortions no matter if it is illegal or not and whether you think it is immoral or not, you can't get around this.

The fetus or embryo has no identity under the government. Birth certificates are given out at birth, so technically if the mother got rid of her pregnancy, then the government would never know because that fetus isn't documented anywhere. It doesn't matter what the people think about abortion or what the government thinks about abortion, women have always done it and will always continue to do it, so the best thing we can do is at least make sure they don't kill themselves doing it which would result in even more death. Would you rather have just the fetus die? Or the mother and the fetus die? That's what this argument has come down to.

 

Of course not. Unless you have sex AND produce a zygote, you haven't made it possible for a fetus to develop yet. A sperm alone will not become a human, nor will an egg. However, the two combined correctly of course will, and this is when there begins a pretty much direct course to a new human being born. If you throw away oil or you throw away vinegar it's not the same as throwing away actual salad dressing. (bad metaphor, I know, but whatever. You get the picture).

 

if someone gets pregnant and doesn't want to ruin their life, there's no sense in not killing a sac of meat before it's even got emotions...

 

Birth certificates are given at the day of birth, not the day of conception. And determining the day of conception is not easy. A lot of the time, the couple probably does not know which day it was, because they had done it for many days. The point is, you can't determine the day of conception and be sure it's correct.

And you're still using a weak argument, just because some women will do it even though it's illegal does not matter. The only way your argument might work is if you could prove that if abortion was made illegal, every single woman who got pregnant would still perform one.

 

No shit sherlock... That's exactly my point. The government will never be able to know that the mother has committed a murder by giving herself an abortion because the identity of the fetus/embryo isn't documented anywhere. Holy crap you are stupid.

http://eurpub.oxfordjournals.org/cgi...t/11/2/190.pdf

"Decriminalization has had no observed effect on the trends in abortion"

THE SAME AMOUNT OF WOMEN WHO GET ABORTIONS WHEN ABORTION IS LEGAL WILL GET ABORTIONS WHEN IT IS ILLEGAL. That means if 800,000 do it when it is legal, then 800,000 will do it when it is illegal. Did you even look at the fucking stWow, can you read dude?

Yeah wow you're right, and if every single woman who got pregnant had an abortion, the human race definitely wouldn't be wiped out in 100 years. Damn you are smart.

 

First of all, calm down... Lol just chill out, you don't have to get aggressive.

Why does it matter whether or not the government knows? If it's illegal, it's illegal. If you steal something from a store and don't get caught, it's still illegal. That's beside the point anyway.

I really don't care where you got the information from, but there is no possible way (EVER) that 100% of the women will still carry out an abortion if it is illegal. Do you really believe that not one single woman would not do it because she knows it's illegal? Not one?

In conclusion, making abortion illegal WILL reduce the number of abortions. There is no possible way that it wouldn't. And this goes back to the argument everyone has been using about heroin... you get the point.

 

Ignorance makes me mad.

So if it doesn't matter whether or not the government knows, then why do we have cops that arrest people for breaking the law? So if the government says abortion is illegal, how are they going to justify themselves by saving all those little babies that the mothers are killing? They wont, they won't do anything to save the babies because they can't, so this law is unenforceable. They would be completely hypocritical by saying abortion is bad and not doing anything about it. It's like saying murder is wrong and doing nothing to protect people from murder.

This is the pinnacle of ignorance.

Stop ignoring the facts.

"Decriminalization has had no observed effect on the trends in abortion"

This means the same number of women performed abortions when it was illegal and when it was illegal. For you to ignore this fact and still cling on to your beliefs is extremely stupid, as I just showed you a study that observed TWO countries changing laws about abortions, and both of them observed no change in number of abortions.

You are wrong, you have showed me no facts or studies that prove your ignorant beliefs yet you still believe in them. Just admit it, I won't make fun of you for doing so.

 

First of all, I never said the government wouldn't be able to enforce the law. I was stating that if something is illegal, you are not supposed to do it whether or not you will get caught. Wouldn't you agree?

I can't believe you're calling me ignorant when you still believe 100% of women who would have gotten an abortion if it was legal would still get it if it were illegal.

http://eurpub.oxfordjournals.org/cgi...t/11/2/190.pdf

^That link didn't load for me. Is that where you got the information from?

I'm not trying to be a dick, I'm just saying that there is no way in the world that every single woman would still get an abortion if it were illegal.


"Decriminalization has had no observed effect on the trends in abortion"

- That can mean a lot of different things. If you're implying that that statement means "100% of the women who got abortions while they were legal still get them now even though abortion is illegal" then that is wrong. Once again, there is no possible way that 100% of the women would still get abortions.

But I'll play along. Let's assume that 100% of all women who want to get an abortion would get it even if it were illegal. Why should it be legal? If everyone in the world who wanted to kill someone (even though it's illegal) did it, we might as well make murder legal. There's tons of scenarios you could use, but it all boils down to one point: Just because everyone is doing it does not mean it is right (or in this case, should be legal).

 

Weak argument, honestly. Different circumstances

 

Should be illegal. That's 50 million more us soldiers if we go into war.. It's a sad thing.

 

You're valuing life based on the possible utility of them being soldiers?
That's disgusting.

 

If I may, I think it was just a well-meant hypothetical but interpret it as you like. As for abortion, I now consider it murder. A fetus, while it may not technically be a citizen or part of society yet, certainly will be. The argument that condoms equally prevent birth is ludicrous because protection is avoiding fertilization altogether, as opposed to destroying an already developing human being...yknow?