Discussion Vs. Debate

So I wanted to start a discussion about the concept of the debate mentality and how it relates to discussion.

Generally speaking, the reason we're having these discussions is so that we can all get together and share our opinions on topics such as this one. Now why are we doing this? Obviously we're doing it to learn from one another and to help each other grow by sharing opinions and information. This is a very good thing and a crucial aspect of human existence.

One of the things about this forum which makes it very hard for people to grow is that instead of actual discussions occurring, we're having debates. The difference between debate and discussion is that when you debate, instead of using the information other people are providing as a catalyst to expand your understanding of the world at large, people here are using the information other people are sharing as a form of "Target Practice" so that they can further assert their dominance over everyone as beings of superior intellect. While this may definitely help you bloat your ego and become more proficient at defending your particular point of view when it is attacked by a rival debater, it does not help you understand the world any better.

In order to develop a greater understanding of the world you need to become more and more open minded to more and more perspectives, you need to be able to look at the picture from different angles so you can see all the different patterns inside of it and such.

Let's pretend that two people were standing in opposite corners of a room staring at a large ball. The ball is yellow on one side, and blue on the other side. Person 1 Declares that the ball is blue, because that is the side he is facing, while person 2 declares that the side is yellow, because that is the side he is facing.

If they approach this problem with a debate mentality, the conversation is going to go something like this.

Person A: Well obviously this ball is blue because that is what I see

Person B: No, clearly the ball is Yellow, because that is what I see

Person A: Well, the scientists on my side of the room have thoroughly analyzed this ball and they have concluded that the ball is in fact blue, while there is still some debate about what kind of blue it is, we will need to analyze the pigment further, but clearly our research has proved that the ball is not yellow.

Person B: Well God is on my side of the room and he has assured me that the ball is Yellow, and everyone on this side of the room knows that we should trust God because he created the ball.

Person A: Well clearly you are illogical and retarded, and this God character must be imaginary.

Person B: Well clearly you have no faith and your scientists are the anti-christ. Your going to hell.

------

See how that went? Was that a very productive conversation? Not really.

Now, lets see how this discussion might go if everyone was actually cooperating and being open minded and trying to work together to better understand this huge room with a ball they all seem to be inhabiting.

Person A: Well I'll be damned, look at this huge blue ball

Person B: Really? I'm pretty sure this is a yellow ball.

Person A: That's odd, are you sure we're looking at the same thing? I would like to believe you but it's very hard for me to understand seeing as how the ball looks very blue to me. Not to mention there are all these scientists over here analyzing the ball that have confirmed it is blue.

Person B: Well that's really interesting, because God is over here telling me the ball is yellow, and God is a pretty reliable guy.

Person A: Well this God fellow sounds kind of interesting, What is it like looking at a yellow ball anyway? Why can't I see yellow? There must be something I'm missing...

Person B: And these scientists your talking about seem like pretty fascinating people, and I wonder why you can see blue? It must be really cool to see a blue ball, it's really dull looking at a yellow ball all the time and I know this ball is more complicated than that, even though I can't quite place it...

Person A: Well Maybe we should work together and find out a solution, My scientists have suggested possibly moving to the other side of the room to visit with you.

Person B: That sounds like a good idea, I'll meet you half way there so you don't have to travel as far.


And what do you know, they discovered that the ball was in fact both yellow, and blue! and not only that, it had a whole bunch of other colors they couldn't see yet because this was an incredibly complicated ball, and they were able to work together discovering all of the new colors for eternity. All because they were open minded and knew how to work together! Hahaha


This is how you have a productive discussion that maximizes the potential to learn and bring fourth understanding, it also minimizes tension between members on the forum because people aren't busy insulting one another over their view points.

The Key to understanding is being open! Being able to see things from new perspectives is like leaning new languages, all it does is enhance your ability to communicate with people.

Now, does this mean, that if your an atheist you should read the bible with the sole intention of finding flaws in it to support your atheist viewpoint? NO. That would be like studying Spanish just so you could go to Mexico and tell them why English is a better language! They probably wouldn't like that very much, and you'd have a hard time achieving any form of mutual understanding with them. You have to sincerely desire to understand other perspectives so that you can relate to and understand the people who embrace those perspectives!

Thoughts?

 

I partially agree.

In good discussions all participants will leave with a different view of the topic than when they started, and therefore discussions can be tools for learning.

However I do think debating serves a value, albeit different to that of a discussion.

To a large degree what you are describing is argument; debating is different. Debating mixes in persuasion and opinion where the participants aren't trying to come to middle ground and has some sorts of rules. This allows observers to listen to both sides of the debate, weigh-up the points and come to their own reasoned judgement.

Whereas discussions don't have as high a value to observers as they can only base their opinion on compromised middle of the road views.

In summary:
-Debates = Good for the audience
-Discussions = Good for the participants

But naturally what you said about being open-minded is a very good trait to posses throughout your life.

 

this is such an intense thread

 

Right - it's just that when I see these threads and these forums I see an utter lack of creativity and innovation in the discussions. All of the concepts that have really been covered in this entire section of the site can probably be summed up in a 10 page essay. Most people here have their ideas about how the world/universe works very set in stone, which is a very close minded system to operate from, just in that something set in stone can't change, and things in the real world are changing all the time! You have to be open to new ideas to further refine your maps of the universe so they more accurately serve the truth.

I'm not trying to put down anyone here, but I just feel that EVERYONE here could benefit a lot more from these posts if people who are active here were more open minded and creative in their discussion.

SOOOO many people participate this forum, and an even greater number read it... many of them are young and still forming many of their key ideas about how things work. I feel like if there was a little more encouragement from the staff and other people that this place could really help a lot more people truly come to understand the world a little better.

There's too much duality in many of the key discussions here... both sides are closed, encouraging a limited world view, when the key in every dualistic situation is BALANCE, which requires open-ness and cooperation between everyone.

I see a lot of the same responses over and over again, which in turn produces the same counter-responses we've all heard over and over again, and so the cycle goes. Which comes back to my point, a lack of creativity and innovation. Not enough people are thinking for themselves, there's a lack of new ideas...

Many of you are young, I don't blame any of you for this, but I know there are at least a few active posters here who are VERY influential, and I know the people I'm talking about can understand the concepts I'm presenting here in this post, and use them to help everyone in this forum further their understanding.

The reason I'm going to such great lengths to explain this is NOT because I'm angry or upset with anyone, the reason I'm taking the time to write this post is because I realize how many young people are influenced by this forum, and I feel like a much better educational environment could be provided here if some changes were made by a few people.... So many people could benefit from this by gaining a better understanding of the world.

 

A debate is not the same thing as an argument. A debate is a logical comparison of ideas, whereas an argument, at least in the sense that you're using it, is an immature "I'm better than you" contest. True debates involving calm, mature people are very constructive.

 

Debate deals with idea and how they are compared.

A discussing is just a brainstorming of certain ideas i believe.