The Existence of God

God's still the most illogical theory possible, if you think about it. Why should that one be true?

 

You going to back up what you say with anything or just give a biased opinion?

 

Do I actually have to prove god illogical...? C'mon. Think about it. You should be old enough (i hope) to see past what people are trying tell you. Sheesh. It's like still believing in Santa Claus. Grow up, will you?

 

Something that doesn't exist can't provide evidence of its own non-existence. Therefore, it is up to you to prove him wrong. Unfortunately, it is impossible to find evidence of an entity that provides no evidence of itself, therefore it is pointless to argue either way.

It is quite funny though, as when confronting religious people with proper logic as opposed to the hardly-thought-out concept of a God, they actually get angry, as they can't themselves back any of their beliefs up.

Sn0wflake, what you hold belief about commonly shown scientific theories with sufficient evidence enough to be held as fact, that has nothing to do with this debate. This debate is all about whether or not God exists, not about what you think of the Big Bang or the Theory of Evolution.

 

Seriously stop using the example of Santa Clause.

Interesting, where do you believe your God is?

 

What I think he is TRYING to do is prove evolution and big bang etc false, but even if he did, he's basing his beliefs on argument from ignorance. "I dunno how the universe came into existence, so god did it".

It's the same belief as the belief in Jesus, it proves how foolish the christian majority are. Don't tell him to stop using it.

 

Because this is the fifth time I've had to say this on this thread. Santa Clause, is an exaggeration of the story of St Nicholas. St Nicholas DID exist and DID give presents to the poor. The difference is that today, people have adapted that story so that everyone receives presents on that single day every year.

First of all, you have no idea why I believe in God. Do not make assumption based on generalizations.
I will continue to, as you put it, "naively contine praying" as you naively continue to hate God for whatever you believe he has done to you.

Your own certainty of God's nonexistence is a mirror of the Christian certainty that he exists.

 

Lol Darkgroove, any religeon could of written in their books that people will not believe, does that mean it's a prediction or un-deniable proof or credible a reason to strengthen your 'faith'?

Even the Koran said/predicted the same thing.

Or are you trying to say if we don't believe in something, it exists? lol.

 

St. Nicholas doesn't exist anymore and he really has nothing to do with the new Santa Claus and most kids haven't heard of him. Beyond that, when did I say that I hated god? It's as if me saying I don't believe in ghosts, therefore I hate them? How can you hate something that does not exist? You can't. And why pray? You know yourself god has never answered your prayers. Don't try to lie to me and say he has, because I used to be a Christian until I realized Christianity had nothing to offer me. I'm already a good person, I don't need to believe in an almighty being to prove it. That aside from the fact that I am not a fool. And me believing that he does not exist does not prove anything. You do not believe in the tooth fairy do you? OH MY GOD!! THEN SHE MUST EXIST! That is horrible reasoning. Probably the most fallacious I have ever seen. Just a last resort for most.

 

When my brother was a baby, his spine was contorted. It was becoming worse and worse. One day, near our local parish there was a, well I'm not sure what it was called but basically there was a bunch of Catholics going through the streets holding a blessed statue of Mary. My mother took my brother to the statue and got him to touch it. After a while his spine adjusted back to a "regular" shape.

Again, don't assume things based on generalizations.

 

Any proof to show it was the statue of Mary which readjusted his spine? I have plenty of problems with my body. So much so, in fact, that I will die young due to a dilation in my Aorta. When I was a Christian, people prayed for me too, I went and saw these socalled miraculous objects and touched them, didn't help one bit. What makes your brother more special than me or anyone else?

 

I want to know IF your story is true, and you are not lying to me, which would be pathetic to do, because that would be using an argument that isn't even real, it's just trying to get me off your back. So as a Christian you're going to tell me right now if you made that up or not. It's a sin to lie isn't it? Then don't lie to me. I don't lie. Beyond that, it's not impossible for someone's spine to heal. Furthermore, why is god going to choose your brother to help? What about all the people dying of diseases in the world? Who pray every single day? What about people who are amputees and pray to god every day in hope that they'll heal through it, and then are practically spit on by your "merciful god" when they die a horrible death. And I'm not making things up here. This acutally happens. Your brother's healing, if it actually happened, really doesn't have anything to do with god at all. Countless atheists have healed on their own, why shouldn't he? And if he's a baby, he doesn't even understand what god is, does he?

 

It is the absolute truth. You have my word. And I never said it was impossible for somebodies spine to heal, I was merely pointing out my experiences as a Christian.

I said when he was a baby, he is no longer a baby and whether he believes in God or not is irrelevant. I believe for many different reasons, but when you tell me that I believe because people tell me to and that my prayers aren't answered, it is a rash generalization. You may not respect my beliefs but you can at least respect my right to choose.

 

I can respect that. But that does not mean in any way that I agree with it. the problem is, people who are raised Christian have a harder time seeing past it. Do you think that if your brother had not touched the statue, would he have healed? Why did god have to only help him if he touched this random statue of Mary? Do you think he would have, if you had prayed for him (which you did, correct..?) still recovered?

 

Well I'm not sure I agree with you there. It all depends on how susceptible somebody is to these types of things (see my posts in Finn's thread about the raising of children in religious households).

I have no clue whether my brother would have been healed. The fact is he is healed and for that I'm thankful.

 

No evidence? Think again:

http://www.chem.duke.edu/~jds/cruise_chem/Exobiology/miller.html

They did not "train to breathe air" - lungs were a characteristic of Sarcopterygii long before they walked on the land.

Don't believe everything you read. Remember:

1). Everybody lies.
2). Everybody has an agenda.

You misunderstand the meaning of the "Santa Claus" argument. The point it tries to get across is that God is like any other unverified belief that many believe in, but later dismiss as silly - except that God is usually not dismissed.

"That no testimony is sufficient to establish a miracle, unless the testimony be of such a kind, that its falsehood would be more miraculous, than the fact, which it endeavours to establish..."

David Hume.

Essentially, what it means is that the evidence for the consistent operation of the laws of nature is overwhelming. Therefore, when one sees an apparent violation of these laws, one must weigh up the evidence - would the non-occurance of the supposed miracle be more miraculous than the miracle itself? If so, then you may have a miracle. If not, then you probably don't have one.

 

Yes we've been able to make amino acids, but we haven't even been able to make a simple organism yet. You'd think that an accident would be easy to recreate. Even if we put all the "ingredients" for a living organism into a jar and attempted to join them up, it would never form a cell (people have tested it.)

Darwin also said that his theories of how life is created wouldn't be true if there was a cell that had a irreducible complexity. Meaning if a cell was so complex that if a single part of the cell was removed, then the other parts wouldn't work. The flagellum couldn't be created from natural selection because it needs all the parts together at one time to work.

Shredderbeam, I have a video for you...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwuJul_i2c0&feature=related
It's only 10 minutes long but the whole video can be found in the links on the side. This is just a short version.

Check out 2:50 and 7:50 for the main parts.

 

I have proof that there is God.

 

Would you like to share it, then?