People Banned for Scamming should NOT be able to come back in good standing!

I support this 100%

If someone scams I think any Donor status and ALL Vouches before the scam should be removed, Like said above it is a "fresh slate" and it should go both ways. I understand every case is different but having a more harsh punishment would discourage scams.

Also just a suggestion, Maybe having repeat offenders permanently banned and anyone who has been pardoned have a temporary tag that says previously scammed as a way to further discourage scams and allow members to have caution with scammers when they return to market.

 

Pretty sure it would just encourage ban evading? if someone is going to scam they are going to scam period, It's hard enough getting people to pay back debts rather than ban evading but now if they lose all form of credibility which could be the only reason they come back to try make a new legit business, then it defeats the whole purpose of the repayment procedure?

All i'm saying is, If a $500 donor scams, let's say he has 1000-1500 vouches, and he made a terrible mistake and wants to come back and start up again, But he loses $500 donor and 1500 vouches then what makes him any different from the newcomers advertising there services? Aswell as having a report about him on the forums lingering over his head? Now tell me, Are they going to start up from scratch again, no donor status, no vouches, and being known as a scammer from before? or is he going to ban evade, Since the difference between his new account and old will literally just be one was a scam account and the other isn't?

 

Ban evading is going to happen regardless, I think a person knowing that they will lose 1000 vouches and their $500 donor status they'll think twice before doing that stupid mistake. The problem of scamming is never going to be solved, But putting things like this in place might discourage people from scamming who've worked hard on their account here. I would really hope that people who have a big reputation here don't turn to scamming every once in a while because they know they can get pardoned or just plain get away with it, If there is no real real measure in place to discourage it they are free to do it with little real risk. Anywhere else if you are found scamming or cheating you get banned, inviting scammers back isn't the wisest.

 

Ban evading will just sky rocket even more and no one will even bother trying to pardon.

Pardoning is a long process and is alot more complex then just saying a few words and hoping for the best, Full repayment of victims+ pardon process which if denied you have to wait 6 months to try again or 3 months if you request DNT (which can be declined)

There is a risk though, Infact a huge one, Ban+ if you ever wish to return you have to repay the FULL amount scammed, and go through the pardon process. As staff have stated it's not an easy process to go through especially for a scam pardon this suggestion just massively increases chance of ban evading and minimizes the chance of the victim being re payed in the long run.

So we shall just invite more ban evaders+ scammers now then? Since someone who loses all rep/donator status within the community after being banned is not going to comeback, Repay the victim just to basically have a newcomer account? (0 vouches, 0 donator status) They are going to think fuck this i'm gonna ban evade.

This suggestion was not thoroughly thought about, I agree there needs to be a change in the way scammers etc are handled, But not in this fashion where it hurts people more than does good? and by that i mean, More ban evaders, More scams taking place, and less victims being paid back.

We can't have a suggestion like this implemented that basically just defeats the whole pardon/repayment process otherwise we might aswell say fuck it and just make ban evading allowed since that's all this suggestion is going to make happen.

 

If someone scammed 3 months ago, or even 6 months ago they are willing to do so again. A person doesn't change that much in that short period of a time. I understand it is more personal for you since you have scammed, But maybe if this was in place before hand you would of not scammed? As far as ban evaders go there is a way to limit that also, You can block proxies on site, you can block certain emails can't be used to sign up, Require 2 step auth on all account. There are plenty of ways to make it more difficult for the average user to make multiple accounts and get away with it.

I still think that if something was implemented to discourages users from scamming in the first place it would do a lot of good, Not that it would stop all scams, but even stopping just a few is worth it.

 

My scam took place due to circumstances outside of sythe, I acknowledge is was wrong however let’s say this suggestion was in place when my scam took place I just wouldn’t come back at all I’d try build a business through a new market, as your suggestion for making it harder to ban evade it’s not only restricting the market to new people who are here for legit reasons it’s just diverting ban evaders to new ways like dynamic routers and requesting IP changes from there ISP, it’s the same as botting no matter how hard sythe staff try to stop the scum coming in they’ll always find a way to do so, but cleaning someone’s rep and donator status does absolutely nothing but encourage ban evading, if anything someone could donate $500 scam $1k and ban evade and donate another $500 and they’ve banked $500 profit rather than losing all there rep and donator status and having to pardon still they could spend an hour getting a whole fresh start up, my point is this suggestion is just so contradictive to the “clean slate” term in the pardon procedure as it literally wipes your account back to nothing rather than being allowed back for acknowledging your mistakes, anyway no support and no further replies good night guys

 

A clean slate should work both ways, Not just in the fashion that benefits the scammer.

You can say it 100 different ways to try to prove your point, But the fact remains implementing some form of these suggestions will stop even a small percentage of scams, so why not go through with it?

 

no reason to lose donor ranks, those arent earned by being a good member, its from donating. unless its proven you scammed and then donated with scammed money i guess

 

Absolutely. This was the whole point ages ago when it was indoctrinated into Sythe.

 

the donor ranks is a tricky one, would you not agree a lot of the people on here donate with the intentions of almost kick starting there reputation, some even with the mind set of doing so to eventually get to a point where they are going to scam

 

Chief, you didn't quote me so sorry if your post was addressed to someone else.on that note Chiefs I would say: No, they don't. A lot of people, from my observation since Matthew introduced the system as it currently is, usually donate right after their first profitable set of trades here to take advantage of the PERKS of Sythe's User Center to help their presence on the forums (i.e. flashy, colored username, 2000 miniranks on display, etc) and NOT their accountability.

Most of them, and thus the people they sell to, are aware that the donor perks are more for personal enjoyment and to make a PRESENSE for themselves, and NOT a NAME (for themselves).

Does that make sense? Sorry for the wall of text.
~Seph

 

no worries about the wall of text haha, interesting view on the topic and i appreciate your response, im relatively new so wasnt 100% sure about all the perks if im completely honest, but i would definitely agree with you to a degree, but i do think there would more than likely be the outliers that donate with bad intentions, but i suppose that is to say there are outliers for almost all situations.

 

Good rebuttal on that Chiefs. Luckily enough the RS Market and most others as well, have evolved to the point that even most newcomers in the markets have come to understand that Userrank Titles and Post Count don't balance out in light of Community Vouches and Track Records. That, and most users now probably read over stickies before diving in.


Now 6-8 years ago I would've more or less agreed with you that it exists, but I think that phase has subsided for the most part, imho.

 

well my friend you have been here a lot longer than i have, and i hope you are right, in a community reliant mainly on trust its good to know the majority of people here are more often than not going to stick by there word, on an unrelated note do you mind if i drop you a PM with regards to how those mini ranks work? thanks.

 

why would anyone scam, then repay to come back to nothing?

 

same reason they would scam in the first place, just idiots L

 

I'd support this - to an extent. I came back 6 years later on a new account. I lost ~400 posts and 30+ vouches, starting from fresh. However, I feel that if somebody were to pay all of their debts, they're here to come back for a good reason. But in the back of my mind it makes me think that they will come back and attempt to scam more. Thoughts?

This is a stupid statement, a decent amount of people that pardon are people coming back years later after scamming small amounts of GP when they were younger. I scammed $15 in 2013 and could scam $500 today if I wanted to. No, that doesn't mean I'm going to.

Because they want to rejoin the community.

THIS. It took me over 1.5 months to fully complete my pardon. I wasn't allowed to trade for that time and frequented Sythe every 1-2 days to make sure it was going well. In addition to that, I had no idea what the outcome was going to be.

 

didnt even take that into consideration, definitely a fair point and you have changed my mind, i would agree with you.

 

And that's why the voting system is there! I'd assume the staff would support voting YES to people who are similar to me and NO to people who are pardoning <1 year after they scammed...because of that reason.

 

yeah for sure, coming on here in like 2009 where the community was more than likely predominantly younger kids trying to make a few mill because the green dragon life wasn't for them probably did end up in a bunch of scams done for the odd few dollars or mills, and once that person has grown up and wants to trade in the hundreds of mills legitimately it would be a bit unfair for them to be completely hindered by previous actions