The Existence of God

The thing is, though, it did have to be one of them. The Anthropic principle applies here.

Sure. Reducing feelings to chemistry is interesting from a scientific perspective, but it doesn't somehow reduce the significance of them.

I'd imagine that it's a misfiring of our brain, much like the moth that burns itself in the candle flame.

 

There's still no way to know for sure, in either case - your view or mine.

Pretty much every culture in the known history of the world has had some sort of religious or spiritual views, and also an interest in altered states of consciousness.

Atheists/rationalists have their own things they have brought to the table, just as others who have embraced forms of religion and spirituality.

Either way, regardless if I'm completely wrong in the sense that there may be something more when you die, it's been proven that better states of mind can be achieved through semi spiritual practices such as meditation, and that's speaking from a scientific state, so it can't all be bad.

RESPECT: http://www.geocities.com/tcartz/sacrifice.htm



Show me an atheist who can do that.

 

True, your view is logically possible, as is mine. I suppose it depends on the stance you take towards it (spiritual or rationalist). I prefer the rationalist stance, as that is how man survives - through logic and reason.

Of course. Human brains are almost identical to one another, and a susceptibility to misfirings in one human might well apply to the entire species.

Yes, that's true. Still, say that the rationalist approach was proven to be true, and that all spiritual feelings were 100% false. I would prefer to avoid spiritual meditation (even if it improved my state of mind) on the grounds that I would be essentially practicing double-think.

Off the top of my head, I'm not aware of any atheists or rationalists who have done anything similar to that. Of course, the rationalist sees that his life is his own, and the good is to live it, so they probably wouldn't do anything like that, especially if it involved spiritual feelings, etc.

 

So, you're saying there was no point of creation. You're saying the universe is infinite. That's fine and dandy, but science has in no way proven this. The argument of whether there was a moment of creation or not is one that will likely never be answered by mankind. This is where rationalism faces its contradiction.

The universe either had to be here forever, or it had to be created. So please tell me how rationalism can explain either of these without contradicting itself. You don't have the answers, no one does.

 

When I say the universe, I mean existence. Existence necessarily cannot be created, for to create existence, existence cannot exist.

It could not have been created - that is logically impossible. Therefore, it has always existed, in some form. I don't see how that contradicts itself.

 

To me the contradiction seems to be that if something was never created how can it be destroyed, which is what atheism ultimately implies.

 

Atheism is a disbelief in any form of deity. It doesn't imply the destruction of matter.

If I have a computer that is sentient, it does not have a soul. It is sentient simply because of its engineering. If I disassemble it, it will no longer be sentient. Its mind will have been destroyed.

 

The poll results say it all.

 

Just because the majority believe something, it is not automatically true.

 

I've seen several on sythe that ended almost opposite a few months back. It just changes with members leaving and new ones coming in. Poll results don't mean anything. At one time 99% of the Western world believed the earth was flat, but that doesn't count for much, now does it?

 

South park quote: Do you belive in a flying spagetti monster???

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But I do belive in a god...

 

Don't you see? (First of all nice argument ) People are all raised to believe in god, etc. and no one questions it.. But when someone does, no one can really find any hard evidence to prove it otherwise.. Just because a lot of people are misled, or something doesn't mean much.. ~90% of the world is religious..

 

God is Nature, and therefore exists. That's all there is.

 

Then God is meaningless. I can define God to be my left sock, and proclaim to the world "GOD EXISTS", but will that offer me any solace in case of an emergency? I doubt it.

 

I hope If I were in this argue but I have alot of study and I will finish in 2 months then I will be here
We will argue alot and u neva get tired Shredder

 

I assumed you and Sythe shared the view that any thing that is infinite is a contradiction in itself.

 

No no no, you said it all wrong.

It goes like this:

You amuse me. I say something that takes me a while to formulate trying to sound "educated" and you say something simple that makes me look like a fool.

EX:

I think im starting to become an atheist. I am starting to read the posts that are written by atheists and starting to understand where they are coming from. All i can say is, that if there is a god, and heaven is real etc, shredderbeam is going to hell.

EDIT: Shredderbeam, whats your IQ?

 

Ok, I know this has already been harped on, but I wanna get my two cents in.

The poll results are stacked in believers favor. Look at the world as a whole and religion in the 80 something percentile. It all boils down to the fact that people are ignorant and believe what is comforting. Honestly, who wants to believe that when they die they are going to rot in the ground when they can believe that they get to live in eternal bliss? More often than not, people choose to bypass what little use of logic they have and blindly follow the masses. I.E. mob effect.

Good for you. Amazing what happens when you read into something and get outside of the box isn't it?

Funny thing is, if there is a heaven etc as you say I might get in despite being an athiest. Why? Well, I was raised a methodist and was "saved" when I was 10. As a methodist the general belief is that you can fall away from faith, but as a babtist the belief is that you can't. Meaning, once you're saved you are IN. Long story short, I'm a babtist athiest =)

 

Yea I'm in the same situation. I'm a Baptist, and my specific church does believe in perseverance of the saints, which is the technical term for that. I was "saved" when I was 9, 13, or 15 depending on how you look at it lol.

 

What evidence do YOU have for a God not being real?