The drug legalization thread to end all others

Yes, this is the one. It will be backed with facts and logical thinking.

Ideology - All drugs should be legal

Reasons - People have the right to do whatever they want to their own bodies as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else. Smoking tobacco, drinking alcohol and eating fast food are all terrible things to do and kill thousands of people a year but they're all legal and generally socially acceptable in moderation.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=88REf0tjZHo <-- Ron Paul owning a zombie in 1988, must watch.


Typical arguments -
*Drugs kill people
This was already addressed above. There are plenty of things that kill people but are not illegal. Driving a car is not illegal. People can get drugs on the street corner extremely easily even with "zero tolerance" laws in place. The laws obviously aren't stopping drug use or it wouldn't still be an issue. Right now, drugs are funding violent criminals who would kill you. If legal, private businesses could ensure purity and add some degree to the drugs. During prohibition, alcohol was very dangerous and contaminated moonshine killed many people. The same thing is happening with illicit drug use right now.

*You're a hazard to society when you're on drugs
This is not the topic at hand. The same laws that apply to alcohol would be enforced with other drugs. If you want to take a mind altering chemical and drive or wander the public streets trying to fight demons (must be some good acid) you put other people at risk. If you stay inside your house and take a drug, that's your right. It doesn't hurt anyone else any more than having a few beers before bed does.

*Drugs cause addiction
This is true. Certain drugs, particularly opiates, do have a track record of being habit forming. So does alcohol. We have all heard of alcoholics. Do we throw alcoholics in jail for their entire life? Certainly not. It's a matter of public health NOT criminality. There are many people who drink alcohol responsibly just as there are the occasional pot smokers and pill poppers.

*Legalizing drugs would increase drug use
I don't think it would. Ask yourself this question - if heroin was legal, would you shoot it in your arms? Probably not. Just because a substance becomes legal doesn't mean the dangers disappear. If you smoke ask yourself this question - if tobacco became illegal but your friend could still get cigarettes somehow, would you still smoke? Most smokers would say yes. As mentioned earlier, the laws in place do not stop individuals from using drugs.

*Kids will have easier access to drugs
This is not necessarily true. A typical middle or high school kid has access to tobacco and alcohol products. An elementary kid does not. It would appear that this is because of the legalization of these drugs. However, a typical middle or high school kid also has access to cannabis (even harder drugs). The kids already have access to drugs. A more reasonable thing to do is treat other drugs like alcohol. For instance, if a parent caught their kid using drugs they would punish the child and explain to the child that drugs are for adult use only. This is what is typically done when a parent catches their kid smoking or drinking.




I am willing to answer any questions any of you may have.

 

The Zero Tolerance thing just sounds like a load of bologna. It would end up like the Moonshine thing forever ago...but a lot more scarce...it will most likely never disappear...

I support the use of SOME drugs.

But that's just my rambling...and some thoughts.

 

It is ending up like prohibition did. Prohibition created dangerous alcohol and the mod. The war on drugs creates dangerous drugs cut with stupid shit and funds gang activity. They can't stop it because there's a market for it.

 

Even if every possible negative effect came from the legalization of drugs, I wouldn't really care. If somebody wants to ruin their life, and not harm others, they can do what they want.

 

The key phrase being "and not harm others". I agree with you that people should be able to do what they want if it doesn't impact others. Sadly, I don't believe people can. Deaths from alcohol poisoning, drunk driving, or other related accidents are enough as is. These do impact others - the kid that gets hit by the drunk driver, the people waiting in line for treatment at a hospital behind the guy with the failing liver, the kids of the dad that spent the rent money on booze, etc. The last thing we need is to add more substances that (according to some studies) are more addictive, take less to become impaired, yadda yadda.

If people could keep it to themselves, by all means I'd back the idea 100%. But for some reason I doubt anyone could honestly tell me they believe that's even remotely possible.

Fat Lard - In your OP you claim that "Smoking tobacco, drinking alcohol and eating fast food are all terrible things to do and kill thousands of people a year but they're all legal"

Justifying one wrong with another doesn't make it right.

 

Drinking alcohol in private is legal. Drinking and driving is not. Doing drugs in public would also be legal and driving, operating heavy machinery, basically anything that could potentially harm someone else or someone else's property would be a crime.

Why don't you think someone could "keep it to themselves"? Isn't it being done right now? Tons of people use drugs despite laws regulating it and they keep it to themselves. People keep legal drugs like alcohol to themselves (generally).

Justifying a wrong? Are you saying that the government letting you eat a lost of food that is bad for is a wrong? The point is the government has no right to control someones personal choices. Hell, why don't we make people exercise for 4 hours a day. After all, people would be in better health.

 

I know that. But what I'm saying is the last thing we need is to add to the current level of crimes committed while intoxicated by adding more substances (and more potent ones at that) that have strong potential for harming others.

And tons of people don't keep the use of those illegal drugs to themselves as well. If it wasn't a problem, the laws wouldn't be tougher on the dealer than the person who commits vehicular homicide.

You mentioned those substances kill thousands of people a year. Inside of those thousands are people who died because an idiot decided to risk that bystanders life. If we were to absolutely crack down on the people who choose to use these; no more "second chances" for folks who kill someone else while intoxicated (bar fight, driving, poor judgement, etc), low priority for those who are only in the hospital because they chose to risk their life (The 30 year old mother that just had a heart attack shouldn't have to wait for the guy that overdosed on heroine to be treated), and actually make it their problem for risking their life, then by all means, go for it. Sadly, too many people are against appropriate punishment/rules.

 

What about the thousands of people who are killed by being innocent bystanders to drug trading? What about the people who are killed by gang members who can't control guns and accidentally shoot them? What about them, they would be alive if drugs were legal, because there would be no need to shoot someone up for stealing your drugs, or silencing someone watching you trade drugs.

 

They'd find another avenue to make money (maybe smuggling in people, stolen electronics, cheap meds from Canada, fully automatic guns, etc).

If the government provided free food to everyone, do you think all of the grocery store owners would sit at home and do nothing or find another job?

 

The War on Drugs is being lost, and the ones who fight it, the police force, the government, the support groups, are fighting a losing cause. The world will always be full of substance abusers, drug dealers and drug traffickers. This is a subject that parents dread to speak to their children about, a subject that the government avoid at all costs, but there is a solution. A solution which fails to be raised in speeches in the past and frowned upon when brought up in conversation, but as the time available diminishes, this solution to the war on drugs becomes is more becoming the most logical and intelligent idea available. The decriminalization and legalization of all illicit drugs.

Now, in the past, and still seen in the present day, when someone brings up the subject of legalizing drug use they are stereotyped as a drug abuser or a civil libertarian, someone who believes drugs should be legal because consuming them isn’t bad or “just wants to enjoy a trip before the cops show up.” In essence, many people believe that the legalization of all these drugs would create a world full of public addicts, kids doing drugs, dugs being distributed without difficulty and really an overall massive drug problem. But that’s what we have now. But I stand before you today, not because of these reasons, but because the positive consequences of legalizing drugs vastly outweighs the negative.

Firstly, though, it must be realized that in order to legalize these substances, there would have to be mass regulation. A “regulated legalization” would include stances such as, permitting privately owned companies to licenses to cultivate, harvest, manufacture, package and peddle drugs, the creation of a federal agency for regulation and surveillance of the drug trade, an enforced standard of sanitation and purity, a total ban on advertising and possibly a forced anti-drug advertisement scheme and also a scheme to impose taxes upon the drugs sold, which will be used for abuse programs, anti-drug advertising and funding for the regulation agency.

As for the reasons for legalization, the most obvious, and perhaps the most overwhelmingly positive point for this idea is simply the fact that it would have the effect of a massive reduction of crime, specifically drug related robberies, bashings, abuse, and mob activity, and the total eradication of drug dealers. Drugs are currently the leading cause for the high rate of violence we see in today’s society, to legalize all these drugs, therefore taking them off the streets and the sales of them out of the hands of society, would also take the violence rate down dramatically. Not to mention the fact that instead of simply incarcerating the sellers of the drugs, the 19 year old boys sent out by the drug barons to sell his cocaine on Redfern station, we are actually taking out the main man in drugs, something we have failed to do, and will always fail to do, while drugs are illegal. This safer environment would not only be good for the community, but the money saved on trying to police these crimes would be extremely high.

The second point for legalization relates to a very sad story that was broadcast all over Australia, a story which defines a tragedy that could easily have been averted if drugs were legalized. On February 20th, the Sydney Morning Herald posted, “Annabel Catt, 20, a dance teacher and former vice-captain of Narrabeen Sports High School, died after being taken to hospital before dawn on Sunday. Medical officers were told Ms Catt, who was showing signs of respiratory distress, had taken MDMA, commonly known as ecstasy.

She was taken to Mona Vale Hospital about 5am on Sunday but died a short time later. Now, it must be said that it was not the drugs that killed Annabel, it was the drug dealers. The drugs Annabel took were “cut” or added to, another deadly substance, all so that the dealer of the ecstasy could make a quick buck. It is this lack of purity used by drug dealers and their total disregard for human life that makes NOT legalizing these drugs a real risk. Due to the fact that if legalization did happen, there would be strict policies regarding the purity of these drugs, this kind of incident would never occur.

And then there is the economic issues. At the current time, we are losing BILLIONS of dollars fighting the war on drugs, when we could be making billions controlling the war. In 2003, the US government spent about $50 billion on the war on drugs. Now think about how much would be reduced from this if there was no longer drug related crime and mob activity and if the government taxed the sales of drugs. Chances are the government would be in the positive region of profits when it comes to drugs, and this money could be used to fund anti-drug and abuse help programs.

The other area that is greatly effected by drug use is in our prisons. The average cost to incarcerate a single human per year is $60 000, and an extremely high percentage of our prisoners are there due to drug abuse or drug related crime. With legalization we would not only save millions because we wont have these people in prisons any more, but these drug abusers instead of being held in prisons for doing no harm but to themselves with drugs, will be able to seek help with the money made from the taxing of drugs.

Though for those of you who believe opinion and theory do not offer a valid argument, if we look back into the 1920s the US government introduced the prohibition of alcohol. It was a COMPLETE FAILURE. Alcohol became extremely dangerous to consume, due to impurities, the crime rates grew dramatically, the courts and prison systems became stretched to breaking point with masses of people being trialed and incarcerated and corruption arose amongst the police force and political leaders. This rather reminds you of society today, in the end, although consumption of alcohol fell at the beginning of Prohibition, it subsequently increased.

Prohibition DOES NOT WORK, and by this example, the illegalization of drugs IS NOT WORKING. If the war on drugs is battled on much further, the usage rates and the crime rates will continue to grow, and perhaps to a point where legalization will not be possible. It is the fear of the unknown, and the ignorance of the way society operates, that has kept us from helping control this problem which runs rampant through society. It is up to us now, in this age, to take the first step towards creating a better future for the next generation. We must make the decision today, to save the children of tomorrow.

 

Only negative things will come out of this and negative things are never good, More people will make drugs like a good thing. We don't want that!

 

As stated above, the use of drugs wouldn't increase just because of legality. Those who wish to do drugs will do so whether a law is there or not. Do you know how many tax dollars are spent on Anti-Drug propaganda? Over 70 billion a year. Do we still have a drug problem? Hmm its not working... THROW MORE MONEY AT IT AND FLOOD THE PRISIONS WITH NON-VIOLENT DRUG OFFENDERS!


Why does the fat bitch who ate cheese burgers and fucked up her own heart get first dibs? She ruined her body just as much as the junky. FACT - Most overdoses can be treated with a simple injection. In the case of opiates, (heroin, codeine, morphine, etc) a single suboxone (opioid antagonist) injection will solve the problem.


No second chances? What do we do with alcoholics in America? They get help. Are you telling me that the best way to get a junkie off dope is to let him overdose and not let him go through a rehab program?

Guns should be legal two. Take a look at the second amendment. You can kill someone as easily with a single shot from a revolver in the head as you can with an automatic. You see, owning a gun (or drugs) shouldn't be a crime but killing someone (or driving intoxicated) is. Cheap meds from Canada? If drugs we're legal there would be competition and that outlet would be eliminated. Smuggling people in? ..... Can't see a thug being swift enough to pull that off.

The government can't and won't provide food to everyone. You can't compare a legitimate businessmen to a thug. Stop now. You lost.

 

"The government doesn't want you to use your drugs, they want you to use their drugs" - Chris Rock

He has a point.

 

If illegal drugs were made legal, there would be no need to try and hide possession or use of them, correct?

Alright, first, drug use WOULD increase, by a lot, not so much in adults, more in teenagers and even younger kids who don't know any better.

If people don't have to hide it, what's to stop a seller from standing on the corner of an elementary school block trying to get kids to buy, or even worse, giving them some for free, so they will get hooked and then most likely come back and then buy some.

If it's illegal, no one is going to risk being arrested by standing on the corner of a block handing out or trying to sell white powder in bags, in clear public.

If you can honestly tell me, which you already have, that drug use would not increase at all, you have to be lying to yourself and to anyone who reads it.

The scenario given above is ONE OF THOUSANDS that would happen constantly instead of the usual NEVER currently.

 

It is illegal to give or sell alcohol and even tobacco to a minor. It would be illegal to sell or give drugs to a minor as well because (most) do not posses the reasoning skills to weigh consequences. Sure, people buy beer for minors and kids die but 9 times out of ten the person who bought the booze gets caught. Kids talk. There are already shady fucks who sell drugs to kids but by being open about it they wouldn't be able to make thousands of dollars like they do now. If someone who is 18 (or 21, whatever the age is set to) can buy a gram of weed for 10 bucks at the cannabis shop down the road, the guy selling to kids isn't going to be able to charge much more than that. It's not worth his time to make 2 bucks a kid and risk jail time.

I'm not saying people wont buy drugs for minors because it's bound to happen. I'm just saying you can look at it like you can with alcohol. When a parent talks to their child and says drugs and alcohol are something for adult use only and because their bodies are still developing they shouldn't use it. Most teenagers can't balance relationships, sports and school as it is and when you throw drugs and alcohol in there it typically makes it worse.

Again, I'd treat it like alcohol. There are rules set in place where you can't have alcohol near schools and other public places. I don't really see the problem with being open about it. If you saw someone handing your dad a beer at a party it wouldn't be an issue. Why should it matter if he decides to puff on a joint?

 

Unless I missed it I didn't see much about Ron Paul in your first post, other then him P4wn1ng z0mb135

Ron Paul is a presidential candidate running in the election for 08' Currently he's doing shitty as hell

In general his view at things is to allow people to do more of what they want instead of having the government rule over alot of it.

His view is to legalize all drugs, in the way that you were talking about. He thinks that if someone is a heroin addict, they shouldn't get thrown in jail they should get help, because it 'MAY' I mean only 'MAY' help more then jail, now who would have thought that?

People don't really give him a chance though, because he's not doing very well right now with the caucas' and the primarys

 

Ron Paul is doing GREAT in the primaries. He's been consistently showing over 10%. Do you know how much 10% is? That's 1 in 10 people. One in ten people have woken up and realized what needs to be done. We need to fix the economy, eliminate wasteful government spending, get rid of the monopolies the government has (schools, etc) and generally privatize things. His numbers are growing to.

Sure he hasn't won any states yet, but he did get 2nd in Nevada (there are rumors that he actually has gotten more delegates from Nevada than Rommny which would mean he actually won in a sense) but you only need to win 5 states (or territories) to be eligible for the nomination. He's GAINING support, unless a lot of the other candidates who are loosing steam. Also keep in mind that Ron Paul has a SHITTY and I mean SHITTTYYYY campaign. He relies almost entirely on grass roots, unlike other "mainstream" candidates.

I will only be 16 when North Carolina has its primary and 17 for the general election so unfortunately I can't vote for him but believe it or not I have handed out slim jims and gotten him followers (including my parents). The reason you didn't see more about him in this topic is because this topic is about drug legalization, not a Ron Paul gay butt secks support thread .

Yeah really. Who would have thought that an approach like rehab would actually help a person more than jail? That's crazy talk.

 

I'm going a little off topic here but I think if he was elected president then drugs would become less of a problem, I think he actually has a good idea that can help drug addicts instead of lock them away until they're 80

 

Drugs should be legal

As long as they dont give addictions to others such as friends and families, etc, also as long as they think drugs are worth the such great feeling for their lives. So be it, I say we cant judge others...

Yes its really hard to stop a doper, they would die for drugs

 

In Pot We trust

watch it, i rest my case.

there are already near 20 americans that recive 300 marijuina cigarettes a month from the goverment. but there are 1000's of people going through pain everyday when one joint could subdue there pain and help them get along with their life!!!

Legalize da herb!!!