Is anything in life real? Or am I imagining everything?

Prove to me you're not just in my head.

 

What you're outlining is solipsism, which the philosophical stance in which you (or your consciousness) is the only thing which exists. There are different variants of it, but generally it's regarded that it's something akin to Descartes' evil demon argument or the "brain in a vat" hypothesis, in which you can never really be sure that anything else is real. The difficulty comes in ever trying to rationalise anything, as Descartes famously said the only thing he can be sure of is "cogito ergo sum," I think, therefore I am. The only thing you can entirely be certain of is firstly that you exist, and secondly... not much else. Knowledge of anything outside of your mind, be it the external world or other people, may just be your own mental representation of it. Without going into metaphysical solipsism, which gets pretty trippy, why not go the route Descartes took?

As mentioned, Descartes was pretty skeptical and, like you have, was wondering what he knew to be true or real other than himself. He imagined that he may be being under some kind of hypnosis by an evil demon, and that the real reality was some other one which he was not aware of. What could he know of? Well, like stated earlier, he knows himself to exist. He knows his thoughts. Even if his body didn't exist, he still knows himself to exist. Well, what else does he know?

What about God? You can conceptualise God, can't you? You can imagine all the characteristics he has, being all powerful (omnipotent,) being everywhere at once (omnipresent,) in general just everything which a God should be. Well, it's also true that everything which exists has something which caused it, right? However far back you go, everything has to be caused by something. You were caused by the action of fertilisation, the acorn was made by the tree, the stone was caused by the breaking of the rock, etc. So... we have an idea of God and we also know that everything is caused by something. What, then, caused the idea of God? Well...if we look back at our examples we can see that the result was caused by something else that had at least as much reality as it. So the same is true for God. Whatever caused our idea of God had at least as much reality as my idea of God does. So, what other characteristic does my idea of God have? Well, for one, God is perfect. As a deity he is all knowing, all powerful, and as a result, God is perfect as a being. So, if we understand God to be perfect, and the thing which caused God has to have as much reality as God does, it means that the cause of my idea of God must be perfect as well. So...the cause of my idea of a God must contain perfection, and no being other than God is perfect. So, it stands to rule that the only thing which caused my idea is God himself. So, if we recall our earlier statements, if something is the cause of something else, then that something must exist. Therefore, God exists.

So, in essence, don't worry. It's at least you and God here.

 

Holy shit man, that was very interesting to read and is an awesome response, thanks for taking the time to put that together. I like your logic of how if something is the cause of something else, then that something must exist. That really made me think for a while about everything. I never seriously doubted my or anyone's existence, but was genuinely curious to see what others thought and this was exactly the type of response I was looking for. Cheers mate.

 

Not my logic, props to Descartes for getting there first

 

Was reading Descartes yesterday and found his answer incredibly disappointing.

I can conceptialize god, he is not maleficient; therefore, an "evil genius" can not be manipulating everything and I can trust my senses. If this was truly an answer, you would not have the Cartesian problem and hundreds of years of philosophers attempting to find an answer.

I'm more in the camp that this statement cannot be proven rationally so I choose to move on and ignore it. We cannot sufficiently prove anything and this is no different. So basically, I can't prove it to you.

 

Indeed, I found him so engaging until I got to meditations 3.

I think that if anything, Descarts should be credited for starting the line of dialogue which lead to the attempt of so many philosophers after him answering it. Like you said, he doesn't answer things very well, but I chose to use him in my answer because he's very good at putting forward his arguments in a basic manner which can be easily responded to, and a starting a dialogue about the the basic issues.

I too think that obviously he doesn't succeed what he ends up arguing with it, but I do however think that his Cartesian doubt has credibility to it. Whichever way you want to phrase the doubt, be it with Descartes' dream argument or the evil demon, or more recently something like the possibility of you really being plugged into some kind of virtual reality, he did answer the question of if you can truly prove anything when in complete skepticism, and the answer to that is apparently yes: you can prove yourself!

 

This thread is confusing me, can you elaborate?

 

What's this Cartesian problem you're talking about? And I like your response it's probably the most rational, I don't really think it's possible to prove anything as well, except for the "I think, therefore I am", which resonates with me. Do you have any belief in religion? Idk if we can talk about that but curious to see your thoughts

 

The answers you seek are within you, philosophy will take you in circles spirituality will take you to the Truth.

 

What's your religious belief, if you don't mind sharing?

 

Life is only as real as we the humans perceive it. The human mind is but a blank sheet, that we have to fill with knowledge of our own, or from others. Honestly when people say the earth is square, who gives a damn? does it change the fact that the earth orbits the sun or maybe that the sun orbits earth? It is all a big perception scheme that philosophers have been trying to figure out for millennia, so good luck conceptualizing it on sythe forums

 

I was with you for the first part, but you 100% lost me with "big perception scheme".

 

I don't think religious belief matters, end of the day there are many different paths which can lead to the one path. What matters is a persons daily spiritual practice. A person can reach Truth through various religions. According to each Messiahs knowledge so they created their own paths to attain Truth, created to unite, now the followers just babble over which is better and whose messiah is right and wrong. Philosophy is very important and is the first step to Spirituality. One must have a desire and thirst to ask the questions Why? How? What? These questions spark interest, the issue is most people get stuck in Philosophy. It's not their fault as they don't have anyone to guide them. A religion is just a path you are free to choose. There are good religions but not many good guides within those religions. I know there ends up being many separate sects in each religion but I've found Truth in the texts of Christianity, Theosophy, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism and Sikhism. My background is Indian and my grandfather was very spiritual so I had insight that most people are not able to have. I dabbled in Philosophy a good amount and realized I could only go so far with it. You have to surpass the mind at some point, philosophy is limited to the mind. So I was taught meditation by my grandfather. I also do yoga as you need a healthy body to have a healthy mind both are required for a person to sustain a daily spiritual practice. The question: Who Am I? pushed me towards philosophy then subsequently a daily spiritual practice. I've worked really hard at it and came really far still have a long ways to go. When they say we keep looking for happiness outside but it's all within that is very true. Regarding philosophy Osho was the most interesting recent modern day philosopher sprinkled with some spirituality that I came across, extremely entertaining if you want to be entertained just youtube "Osho" vids. I had a hell of a time watching his vids and hearing his philosophy some people are just gifted in the way they speak and interact he was one of those guys. Not saying I agree or disagree with anything he said but he was very entertaining. I spent so much time on Philosophy, now I just sustain my spiritual practice and continue to grow within it along with living my life. What really helped me was becoming open-minded and dropping all my beliefs. People always say "I believe" drop all what you believe and say I don't know, then stick to what you know. A proper spiritual practice will reveal all truth to a person over-time.


^ wow I really just typed a wall of text as a reply to someone asking my religious belief without even answering their question

 

If you are real, you will be real. However if you do think everything is just an imagination, then it will be just an imagination.

 

Your sense of "I"-ness is an illusion. The "I am" thought exists for a moment. Who are you? Strip away every label you use to define you.You are in a hologram, reality is subjective. There is no you, only consciousness, the one truth of reality. You can't objectively prove reality exists outside of your consciousness.

Maybe god/big bang made everything, maybe we're a sims game for something in a higher dimension, maybe your brain created us all.

all of the above idealist memes are stolen from frank yang credit 2 him 4 the enlightenment

 

Yeah, you also made a TREMENDOUS amount of claims without justifying anything.

"If you are real, you will be real" is a meaningless tautology.

Huge claims. Any justification?

You can't prove that your parents existed - do you doubt their existence?

Not all possibilities are created equal.

 

i meditated 15 hours a day for a week straight

 

Awesome, I hear that's great for your health. Why does that have anything to do with what you're saying, though?

I didn't ask you to trust my integrity. I pointed that you didn't justify a single thing you said.

 

How would you like me to justify what I stated to you? Should I print it out on a paper and show it to you? Lol. I just meditate I don't try justifying or convincing people why they should or should not that's up to them. Yeah there are health benefits as well.