The thread disproves god entirely

*views thread against after a couple days*
EEK... Some people shouldn't be allowed to have an opinion. This thread is filling up too much with unintelligible drivel.

I have a vague understanding of infinity.
I have no idea what hell is like in comparison to our current state.
I don't know to what extent our mortal lives influence our eternal lives.
I don't think it wise to presuppose what is right or wrong - just or unjust - fair or unfair - based solely on the immediate situation nor on the popular idea of well-being.
So it's difficult for me to answer that which I find to be asked under false pretenses.

Well... I cannot argue with that. Oh wait, I just did in my previous post. :/
If you know all things, that doesn't entail a knowledge of things that do not exist. That'd be some sort of simultaneous knowledge and everything and nothing.

No doubt a correct assumption.
But your assumptions concerning the 4th dimension are wrong. We are not 3-dimensional entities with free-reign over the 4th. Such would create a disorderly and chaotic time structure (I know you're likely to agree, you just feel God is different). We are somehow in a set progression, or something of the kind... I obviously don't understand how that'd work, being a superset of the 3rd dimension.
So you're basically saying time ("the 4th dim.") is constant, unlike the 3rd, therefore God can view it (which he wouldn't even need to do, having crated it) without disturbing the workings of the universe. Otherwise he'd have to manipulate the state of the universe (it not being constant and therefore not being independent).
I'm saying it's not a constant structure (which seems even more perplexing and less likely to exist without a supernatural event than what I think) and is in fact expanding during our progression. Now... I have as much evidence as you do towards time being a constant, so we can leave it at that.
But it time weren't constant, God wouldn't know what we were going to do without doubt.
And if it is constant, than God achieved nothing more than pretty much playing back a movie he constructed. Even for a non-theist God, that'd seem pointless.

Wrong-o.
It describes such things in the beginning of the Bible. People worshiping false idols and other such religious acts.
And animal sacrifices were done by "Christians"... which ended after the crucifixion.
So these Christian ideas came from nowhere. It is in fact other religions that borrowed and twisted Christian practices.

Wow, I didn't know that!
I find it remarkable that you do. But anyhow, we're not talking about the faith of other's, we're talking about our own. And I can't speak for everyone, but I certainly don't believe what I want to be true. Otherwise I would no doubt believe that sex and partying is the way to heaven.

Wrong... :/
The pain was felt in Gethsemane, not the cross.

And how else to you expect to describe something not of this realm? Why would something such as fire exist in a supernatural state? And if it did, would it still be the same "fire"?
Basically hell is not a place where anyone would want to go. Whether it's torturous or not is irrelevant, and frankly, I find it to be relative. I'm certain everyone would be tormented to be eternally in a place far inferior to the joyous state of the paradise they could've earned. Even if that place was no different than our current state -- which most don't consider to be torturous, but that's not on an eternal scale.

Wrong again. I'm fairly certain the Bible was never that explicit.
And even so, what I said concerning the state of hell applies to heaven as well. It is beyond surreal and couldn't be described even if you saw it with your own eyes (aside from the fact that it's not likely to be composed of visible matter )

Not owned. I agree with him, such questions are irrelevant. It doesn't matter if there is a perpetual chain of God and sub-Gods... focus on your belief in our creator.

No one ever said science is fake.

Nah. I think he's probably still waiting for your response to him pointing out the invalidity in story of the shepards, which is as much proven as God's existence. Yet you selectively choose to believe in that story instead of God. And you say Christians are blind? Try to use your head.

 

Wow, I'm not a perfect Christian, thats for sure. But I personally believe God made us be able 2 choose right from wrong and wrong from right. Like we he let Adam and Eve sin, I'm sure he knew that would sin. I'm not sure he wanted them to sin, but it led to new events in the future, which all led to Jesus dying for our sins. Now u can see my not make everyone perfect, well then how would we learn of God's true grace and mercy and power? If he didn't let us stumble and fall, I think we wouldn't grow to love him more. I know some of you may have had your own experiences involving God, bad or good. But God to me seems to let us learn and have more trust n him, like when I was 7 my house got flooded and then my dad had money issues, I hated God for letting my dad loose clients and money and the strain it put on me, my mom and dad, that i didnt see him at all and that made em hate my dad too. Im older now and im not perfect by any means, but I look back now and I see even from the pain n suffering my family went threw, I respect my dad alot for not leaving us i na time of need and God always blessed us with food, even when things were very "tight". I'm not saying thats always how it is or even that my life is the best now, but its better and with suffering God also blesses me. I think God always has a plan. Laugh at me, idc. But God made us perfect with the choice to be good or to do wrong and we are not perfect because us "man" made wrong choices, that God let us make. So we wouldn't just know God and all his grace right when we came to be, but threw struggle and confusion. Im not saying I understand it all, but I know God always has a reason.

 

An omniscient being knows everything before it happens, and has no reason for a "test". This includes the actions a person will take, and ultimately where they will go when they die, assuming there is an afterlife.

 

Ok the world isn't millions of years old like its told to be. The universe hasn't always been here. If it wasn't always here there had to be a beginning, such as a all "powerful being". You can not create something from nothing, but being all powerful you are able to have always been there and do so. So the universe always being there is ruled out, on the other hand having a being who can do the impossible do so is not.

 

That's not an explination...

 

rofl@ cruel__machine's post. Ur my new hero (next to the kid that goes "i like turtles!")

 

You can believe anything you want. I could believe that you are emotionally stable. Although that's a tad more far-fetched than the notion of an omnisceint being who watches over us. My point is, anyone can believe anything they want, it's a matter of opinion. Please, for the love of all that is decent in this world, back your opinion up with some proof if you want to persuade anyone to your point of view!

Direct me to any post you would like me to address and I will. I have replied to all the ones I have seen.

That's like saying, "Well, we looked into the future and saw you commit murder, so we think we'll throw you into an electric chair if that's fine and dandy with you."

 

I didn't say he had no reason to let the events happen, only that it could not be called a "test".

 

The Bible explicitly states that if you are bad during this life, you WILL burn in Hell FOREVER.

So, can that be justified? Infinite punishment for a finite crime?

Yet I didn't say that God had an infinity of knowledge in some particular areas, I said that he was all-knowing. All encompasses everything. If I throw away all my apples, they're all gone. I have no more left.

Yet the first three dimensions shift, move, etc, and God can see those. God being outside the universe, he can see all dimensions regardless of their movements/shifts.

What you say is incorrect. There were many other religions before Christianity that sacrificed animals to please the gods, erase their sins, etc. The "Jesus is our blood sacrifice" part was likely chosen because of the appeal to the common man of sacrifices.

Yet there are so many other people who argue as you do, except for their own particular faiths! Have you not noticed this? Most people who fervently believe in their faith have been born into it. If you were born into another faith, chances are that you would be fervently defending that faith right now, assuming you still were raised the same way, were allowed to come onto Sythe, etc.

First, that was Jesus's choice to go into meditation/prayer there. He did not have to expand on his ordinary human fear of death.

Second, I think that the pain felt through meditation/prayer in one night would not equal the pain and suffering of all humans for all of human existence. If it did, I have my doubts that Jesus's mind would not have cracked. After all, he was human.

Well, yes. If Hell is real, I doubt very much that it's an actual place that people could travel to when still alive.

An interesting thought, but it says specifically in the Bible that Hell entails physical pain and anguish.

I'd have to look up the verse, which I cannot do since I seem to have misplaced my Bible... :/

Well, it was something about God being the light, and nothing else mattered, etc. Yes, I agree that Heaven is doubtfully an actual place (assuming that it exists), but that wasn't my point.

The world IS millions, actually billions, of years old. Look up radiometric dating...

The beginning of the universe isn't necessarily an all-powerful being.

The questions that apply about the universe's existence still apply to God's existence (where did it come from, etc.)

It all comes down to this: Start with no presuppositions, look at ALL of the evidence, and try to see what reasons there are for God's existence.

 

i wanna say i am christian, but thing how everyhting (before world corruption) everything was in sync like we drink water hye water was there we needed to eat hey there was edible food you know everything just truned out to be right the sun was there we are the only planet thats livable on i dunno sound like theres a bigger force around

 

My other post is a supreme example of the ignorance going on in the religion of Christianity. The Bible started out with sheep herders claiming to receive visions from divine forces. They were, as the gospels describes, preaching Heaven, Hell and God. The stories which they shared travelled from man to man, land to land, in a timespan of over half a century, till finally someone with a (by todays standards) basic education wrote them down. Now, when a story travels from mouth to mouth, person to person, land to land - it will inevitably get altered just a little bit each time. How many significant changes do you think was made? A pretty damn lot, if you ask me.

There were 40 significant people who wrote down the stories, and over 36.000 Bible verses were later added together, into one book - the Holy Bible.

Oh, and if anyone wants, I have 101 contradictions from the Bible, saved in a notepad. I can send them to you, if you would happen to be interested.

Here you go: http://www.sythe.org/showpost.php?p=2082683&postcount=359

You quoted with my name, when it in fact was not me, but Fallen Soul who wrote that? And Earth has been estimated to be around 4.6 billion years old. 1 billion = 1000 million. Yeah, that's quite different from the Bible's claim of Earth being created just 6000 years ago.

 

Maybe you should consider googling radiometric dating flaws.

 

Life evolves to fit what it's given. If Earth was 75% land, and 25% water, with tempatures around 200 degrees, I'm sure life would adapt.

Oops, sorry, just fixed that.

I'd like it.

 

Could you please direct me to your sources on this one? I seem to have lost the page I had open to Made Up History 101.

Send it to me through Sythe mail. I'm not going to open a notepad.

Are you sure I didn't reply? I'll check later because I gotta go, but I'm pretty sure I did. Maybe it didn't post because of lag. If it didn't post I'll edit this post and respond. ;|

 

Look at the page 18.

As you wish.

Nope, no reply.

Sending it in a second.

EDIT: Give me your mails so I can send them to you, Sythe only allows 5000 characters in a message.

 

You still didn't tell me who you heard this cute little shepherd story from..

 

The priest at our local church, and the gospels.

If you want the Bible contradictions, PM me your mail, and I'll send them to you in regular text format.

 

[email protected]

Cheers

 

Well you see all of gods work so basically only part of Christianity is faith. But with everything god proves to us there should be no doubt in your mind of the things unseen. I am talking about the day to day things that are there and people take for granted.

Exactly All the athiest quit arguing with me I noticed they give LITTLE explanation on things as apposed to before. No the world is not that old. IN FACT it cannot be old. All of the atheist throw out the first law of thermodynamics(Simple terms: Matter cannot be created nor destroyed.)but they leave out the second law of thermodynamics.

Second law of thermodynamics. In any closed system, things become disordered. If an automobile is driven for years and years without repair, for example, it will become so disordered that it would not run any more. Getting old is simple conformity to the second law of thermodynamics. In space, things also get old. Astronomers refer to the aging process as heat death. If the cosmos is "everything that ever was or is or ever will be," as Dr. Carl Sagan is so fond of saying, nothing could be added to it to improve its order or repair it. Even a universe that expands and collapses and expands again forever would die because it would lose light and heat each time it expanded and rebounded.

The atheist's assertion that matter/energy is eternal is scientifically wrong. The biblical assertion that there was a beginning is scientifically correct.

 

For those who wanted the bible contradictions, go to http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_meritt/bible-contradictions.html - I'm on my sisters laptop atm, 'cause my own computer is broken atm.