Bus employment/deposit dispute with Skank re $500 deposit.

Dear Sythers,

The title should be explaining what's going on. Since Bus refuses to communicate with me through Skype about this matter, and by the way told some worker of him he would communicate with me through Sythe, I guess I am forced to make this report. Please note this will be a thread in progress, it's about a $500 deposit and that is a big deal to me. So I'll do whatever I can to retreive it. Which leads me to my first question: Am I allowed to take legal actions against him (if they would be worth it) by Sythe?

So what's going on here?
About 2 weeks ago I've seen a thread about Bus hiring Livechat Operators for his gold website (www.rsgoldfund.com). On that I contacted him and paid him a $500 deposit so he could had a kind of safety I wouldn't run off with the gold I was given to be able to run the business.

Now two weeks later we have a situation: Bus fired me two days ago and refuses to communicate/give back the deposit I gave him two weeks ago.

Why he fired me?
Since he refuses to really communicate with me / gives very few information. So far I know he accuses me for being rude to his customers and I have 4 scam reports. That's all he said, no evidence or anything (I hope those will come up here). There might be other stuff, but I'll let him take the word on this and give my arguements/evidence where needed to it.

I'm going to be nice and conclude here and ask him for the last time (through Sythe this time) to refund my deposit before I go deeper in this matter.

I thank you for reading this and am looking forward for this to get taking care off.

Kind regards,


Skank



PS: If anyone has him on Skype, please inform him about this since I think he deleted me on Skype or something. Thanks!

 

First, I should preface, Sythe.org as no authority to make any legally binding declarations. We do partially function as a dispute resolution organisation, and so whatever decision we make is binding within Sythe.org only. Whether you should take legal action is something you'll have to consult a solicitor about; solicitor's can be expensive.

Having said that, this is an employment dispute. I'm sure you signed a contract with Bus. Could you please send be through that contract, and any/all communications you had with Bus that were relevant to your employment.

 

I can send you the whole conversation in a database if you'd like? And let me PM you the contract.

 

The accusations concerning this user are legit. I was on team speak when a host was renting a main. When I asked he had to go back and check. He then copy pasted the website and it was rsgoldfund. Approximately 30 minutes he started lagging badly. When I checked his packets he was in deed losing connection. He was kicked off the account and couldn't get back on. The user bad around 120m on the account. When I told him I knew bus and would message him. Bus told me I needed evidence. Unfortunately there isn't much but my word and about five others. The user hasn't made a report because he's counted it as gone. I have nothing to gain from this. I know bus is legit but his workers are not.

 

This disputes being actively handled. Hopefully it will be resolved soon; preferably within the hour.

 

Bus was unwilling to refund yet fired the employee. Apparently this said user has had several more scam accusations against him. I was unaware of this. If bus fired him due to these allegations he must believe they're to be true. I would like to ask mods to consider a refund for my buddy. I believe he has a sythe account. I'm on my phone now but I'll message him when I get home.

 

This isnot true at all. First of all you can come in and say whatever you want to be hones, you are just trying to defend Bus here.
Any lets assume I did that.... Why did I DDOS him (Assuming i knew how to lol) while I could have just kicked him of by recovering the account? Also why would I scam 100m while I have a 500 dollar deposit? And to be honest I think Bus is making those scams up, since he didnt seem to be able to give any legit evidence...
And saying Bus workers arent legit is just out of line. But im sure community knows better.

 

Please respond to my PMs @Skank Services

 

I did, wasnt on forums when you sended me, sorry.

 

Since there are a lot of people treating this thread as television, here's what's up:

Bus will repay the $500 deposit. Bus says he needs time to get the total funds together for 07 or BTC. I've given him a reasonable amount of time to do so: 7 days.

• This is subject to one condition, Bus alleges that Skank accepted an Interact payment when he shouldn't have, causing loss, which, pursuant to a clause in the contract, can be deducted from the deposit. Whether that can be supported, and the amount to be deducted is something I'll continue to look into. If Skank did incorrectly accept payments he shouldn't have, and that caused loss pursuant to a clause in the contract, then the $500 will be reduced by the loss.

As soon as the report was posted, Bus immediately contacted me on Discord seeking to resolve the issue. I told him that he would only have grounds to keep the deposit if there had been a breach of contract by Skank. Bus told me the alleged conduct, and posted the terms of the contract (the identical terms as Skank PM'd me via Sythe). I concluded that there was no evidence to justify a breach, and Bus accepted that, and immediately said he would repay the $500.

Both Bus and Skank have been co-operative. I'm locking this thread because those posting in here, aren't so co-operative.

To repeat, Bus has 7 days to repay the $500, subject to a reduction per above.

 

So to update, there have been a number of other things brought up, which, in the interests of transparency should be posted here. As I said above, Bus has to repay the $500 subject to a reduction per above, and there may be more reductions which are relevant, reference being made to them now.

Skank stated he thought the deduction for the Interact payment was fair, so the market value of 19m 07 is to be deductible, which Bus says is $23. Bus brought up an issue about consequential losses, which I thought was too remote, and so told him he couldn't have it (essentially losses for future profits that would have been made). $500 - $23 = $477 for now.

Skank alleges that Bus did not pay him $10 for 'Monday'.

Bus alleges many things against Skank:

1. That Skank was 'rude' to customers, one chat Skank allegedly said: "Can you take a chill pill? We cannot be responsible for you getting ddosed". Apparently this was not the only instance
2. That Skank took too long to respond to customers generally (taking 20 minutes at one point)
3. That Skank did not respond to customers at 3x the rate of Bus's other employees
   • On 10/25 Skank missed more chats than he responded too for example
4. That Skank failed to take delivery pictures 2 trades (this obviously being a serious breach of protocol)
   • Those 2 trades were charge-backed for $51 USD and £106.41 GBP

Before I make a decision as to the final amount, @Skank Services what's your response to the above, especially the 4th point.

 

1. This person was harrassing me with false acuastions of me DDOSing him and stealing his money. I do not know what I exactly said, but still feel after being nice for a reasonable time this was a responsible answer. Taking things out on context is an easy way to make it look worse.
2 & 3. I did inform you, and Bus, that I tryed out the Zopim application on my phone and it didn't work properly which could have lead to those situations. Bus didn't make a problem out of it when he noticed it, and suddenly he does. Smells like subjective arguements.
4. I highly doubt this is the case, I always made screenshots on the VPS. And if I trade on my own computer I always added in the Gyazo links of it. Also I think it is very suspicious he's bring up those two trades since those are almost the biggest trades I ever did for him. Also this is a very easy claim to make in my opinion, where is the evidence of this?

I also want to add that I think Bus didn't need to have 7 days for the payment, he is just trying to find reasons he doesn't have to repay me. I've spoke to another worker and he's being weird to them too. (Might be solved by now).

 

I'll message Bus this to try sort this out ASAP. To follow on some of those points:

If you were not responding to customers at a significantly higher rate than other employees on the days you were not trying out the Zopim application, what do you think should happen? Also, was the date you were trying out the Zopim application, presumably the 10/25, the 'Monday' you were talking about?

For the 4th point, what do you think should happen if the screenshots were not uploaded? I will ask Bus to post the evidence of them not being uploaded.

 

This could be the case, not sure about it tho, I tryed it out for several days... One day it seemed to be working better than others.
And to be honest, since Bus is trying to be strict... There is nothing specified about it in the contract.

This is not specified in the contract, aswell as he could've done anything he wants to links I posted since we just had to paste it in a spreadsheet and he can delete as much as he wants + if it was on the VPS he can just delete them too... I'm waiting to see what he comes up with. Also can you give more details about the trades? Might have them saved somewhere...

 

Clause 9 of the Contract would be the catch-all clause which can cover the conduct he alleges. Effectively it's an: if you make a mistake, damages may be payable clause (with an example of not checking ID as a type of mistake).

For that clause there are two limbs:

1. Did you make a mistake; and
2. If so, what are the appropriate damages to be paid, if any.

The problem with those clauses, something which I told Bus is that they can never be penalties (clauses like that are void to the extent that they are penalties). I also told Bus that employers assume a lot of the risk when hiring employee's, so not all mistakes would enliven damages under Clause 9. So ultimately, and the reason why it's hard to give a precise number, is working out what an appropriate amount of damages is (given that employers assume a lot of the risk, but not all, and given that the damages can't be penalties), IF a mistake has been made.

All I know about the trades were the USD and GBP values above - I'll post here when Bus responds.

 

Okay, but he has to be able to give evidence I suppose? What would be a legit evidence for this?

 

Ok, so to update again:

Skank was able to find screenshots of the £106.41 GBP trade. Bus also found the Gyazo's in the spreadsheet of that, and the $51 USD trade. Bus said he is happy to repay $456.05 of $500.

• The first deduction was the interact trade I was talking about: a $21 reduction (I initially, mistakenly, said $23).
• The second and third deductions were the commissions for the £106.41 GBP and $51 USD trades. Bus said that Skank, and presumably all his other employee's, are paid on commissions for their profit, and says that if a charge-back/dispute occurs, the commission is returned/deleted. The commission on those 2 transactions he says are $16.88 and $6.07 respectively.

Accordingly, $500 - $21 - $16.88 - $6.07 = $456.05. @Skank Services your response?

 

I can't remember me agreeing to that. Can he prove the? (About the refund part). I agree on the interact trade deduction.

 

7 days past by, @Bus369 keeps coming up with new things so he has to refund less. He shoots away without adding any legit evidence right away. I did turn down any 'false' claims he made so far, besides from the interact payment I did say it was my fault (actually I think @Bus369 needs to get a proper back-end for his site, but he indeed told me to not accept it) from the start.

Also on a small sidenote I have old customers of him complaining that they haven't been refunded for gold that haven't been delivered since he closed his site. which doesn't suprise me since something I remember from when I working for him was that he told another week the customers/sellers could wait for a week for a refund/payment. Which in my eyes isn't a correct way of running a business. I will forward a Skype picture of this taking place to @malakadang since I want to respect the privacy of the other persons involved.

I would like to ask a penalty for @Bus369 not paying on time (I think 7 days was very very reasonable on his part).

 

Bus mentioned the arguments as to why he was entitled to further deductions 3 days ago (some a bit earlier). If he believes he is so entitled, he is absolutely welcome to state his case.

They should contact Bus directly, and failing that, should file a scam report.

No such penalty is warranted. Bus has the BTC ready, and so it is just a matter of working this final point out.