Why are soldiers treated with so much respect?

I'm sorry, do you fear polio and what lies on the other side of the Berlin wall too? You can argue, its happened before why won't it happen again. But on the other hand you can argue, so long as we dont make them again mistakes are to be learned from. And I think the people argue the latter.

I took the following directly from your link. I found it under Conscription controversies since 2003. This leads me to believe it wont be happening again anytime soon. Albeit, I did NOT read the whole wiki. I'll apologize in advance if I skimmed past anything that refutes anything below, but until its brought to my attention I'll have to respectfully disagree with your point of view.



In November 2006, Representative Charles B. Rangel (D-NY) again called for the draft to be reinstated; Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi rejected the proposal.

A similar bill to Rangel's 2003 one was introduced in 2007, called the Universal National Service Act of 2007 (H.R. 393), but it has not received a hearing or been scheduled for consideration.

On December 21, 2006, Veterans Affairs Secretary Jim Nicholson, when asked by a reporter whether the draft should be reinstated to make the military more equal, said, "I think that our society would benefit from that, yes sir." Nicholson proceeded to relate his experience as a company commander in an infantry unit which brought together soldiers of different socioeconomic backgrounds and education levels, noting that the draft "does bring people from all quarters of our society together in the common purpose of serving". Nicholson later issued a statement saying he does not support reinstating the draft.[100]

At the end of June 2014 in Pennsylvania 14,250 letters of conscription were erroneously posted to men born in the 19th century calling upon them to register for the US military draft. This was attributed to a clerk at the Pennsylvania Department of Transportation who failed to select a century during a transfer of 400,000 records to the Selective Service. The Selective Service identified 27,218 records of men born in the 19th century made errantly applicable by the change of century and began sending out notices to them on June 30.[102]

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_equivalence

Your so called "disagreement" is pure propagandistic blindess of the government who actually threatens you with prison and a lifetime of debt for not signing a piece of paper. They actually have sent millions of men to die while fighting their enemy for them, and if they deserted, they would be executed. They actually rounded up over 100,000 innocent people in the United States and put them in concentration camps, and the court ruled that was perfectly fine. There is no limit to what governments will do, up to and including murdering people who refuse to murder for them, or imprison 100,000 men, women, and children who were living peaceful lives inside their own country. We haven't even made it to the Soviets yet.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internment_of_Japanese_Americans

Politicians are known for being honest and consistent right? Why would I ever believe their word over the graves of millions?

 

Pure propagandistic blindness...That came purely from the Wiki you posted.... You're right I'm the blind one.:laugh:

Have you ever downloaded a movie? I'd be willing to bet you skip right over the part that mentions fines and imprisonment so you can hurry up and watch that movie. Make sure while you're watching out for Uncle Sam to come snatch you up from your house in the middle of the night that you also keep an eye out for those movie bastards too.

 

I am right. I don't know why you are trying to be sarcastic about it, as if you are pretending to have some sort of basis to reject my claims.

Are you trying to be sarcastic again? The US government will even go through the effort of chasing you entirely around the world to make sure they hunt you down and throw you in a cage for that.

 

Why do I have the feeling that you would be right even arguing how square wheels are...

And that's my point exactly. You can have the exact same punishment imposed on you for stealing a movie, but yet I'm sure you willingly do that. So why are you bitching about a piece of paper you signed? Again, the likelihood of it having any more influence in your life... Slim to none. Your fears are totally unwarranted.

Now, can we agree to disagree? Nobody's changing anybody's mind here, and that's more than okay with me. Your opinion is of no less value than mine. Hell, I happen to agree with some of the things you've said. Mostly about the unscrupulous ways of our government. If anybody really knows the shit they pull its the people that have worked for them. We tend to get fucked the most. And I even think the draft is a bad thing. Its common sense if someone really doesn't want to do something they aren't going to put much effort in it, and in this case that just causes unnecessary casualties. Nobody wants that.

I'll even go as far to apologize for coming off the way I did. I guess I just took a few of your comments as personal attacks on soldiers. Which is a big no no for me, especially if you've never worn the uniform and experienced the things soldiers have to struggle with while trying to maintain peak mental performance, along with sanity. I'm sure they weren't meant to be that way, but I clearly have personal vested interest which admittedly makes me a bit more sensitive to the subject.

 

So you don't believe that there are Vietnam vets living today in America that weren't drafted? They did enact the draft during the Vietnam war, and there are people living in the united states today who survived the war. So, I suggest you find one and thank them for their service.

http://www.veteranshour.com/vietnam_war_statistics.htm

 

Being a soldier isn't a job. They strap on armor, clean their weapons, take briefings on who's trying to kill them today. Soldiers don't just commute to a job. They live in tents, mount up in armored vehicles, hope the road's not mined. Soldiers are under orders. They follow their superiors, deploy in tactical formations, watch each others' backs. Soldiers are out there protecting others' homes. They stare at their kids' old photos, complain about the food, wonder how their families are doing.

I'm willing to spare a little respect.

 

I respect soldiers because they put their lives on the line to protect their country. I don't bow down to them as you say but I appreciate their service. I am fascinated by the special forces, for instance the S.A.S (Special Air Force) or Seal Team 6. They have my utmost respect, I can't believe the amount of physical and mental torment they go through in their training. They're the toughest men I've heard of, literally pushing themselves to the edge of exhaustion, pursuing absolute perfection in all endeavors and having a never surrender attitude. If I were to ever join the Army I'd aspire to join the special forces because that's where the real action is.

 

Everyone says this. Myself included. And with my personal experience, I can count on one hand how many people have felt the same way after finding out what the "real action" is really like. I'm not one of them.

 

I understand that special forces is not for everyone. That's why only the ones who REALLY want to be there get in, because who's going to put up with the extensive training without being passionate or motivated. Yes, real action deters many but I've been craving to get out there and put my life on the line for something greater than myself. I understand it's harsh out there.

Anyway, I'm not joining the Army. I'm in University now, studying Economics/Finance. My aim at the moment is to make a lot of money.

 

I wasn't exactly clear in my last statement. Getting in isn't what I would consider the difficult part. Its what you have to deal with to complete the mission that gets difficult. Training is a picnic. Having to shoot a fucking kid on the other hand isn't. You sign up knowing you could have to do all sorts of things, but its completely different when you are actually faced with those decisions and have to not only make that choice in a split second but then live with it for the rest of your life. You're never the same, and its not a change for the better.

Coming home wrapped in a flag is not great. Do something with that school thing and make a difference in the lives of disabled vets and the families of those who were KIA if you really want to devote your life to something greater than yourself.

And I say again, I'm clearly personally invested so take my opinions with a grain of salt...

 

The training to get into the S.A.S is not easy... It's rigorous, that's why there are less than 300 soldiers in the regiment because only the elite make it in. I agree with you regarding the mental strain it can take upon a soldier but the men who enter the S.A.S know full and well what they're signing up for, killing people isn't an issue for them. In fact if you read up on interview of several soldiers from the U.S Seal Team 6 they go so far as to say they're glad to kill "F***ing muslim scums". S.A.S only do covert missions, they're stealth meaning they do reconnaissance before missions and know exactly what they're walking into. They are also trained not to shoot unarmed beings within buildings on raids, anyone with a weapon will receive 2 bullets, 1 to the chest and another to the head.

I agree with you also on the point you made about helping Veterans and families with sons who we KIA. It's sad that they aren't treated well by the U.S government, especially vets.

 

Kind of a Sythe lurker here, but this thread really caught my eye.

I am a United States Marine and have been serving this country for a little bit now.

Personally I don't mind nor do I care if people respect/admire what my sisters and brothers in uniform do for this country, and a lot of us feel like that. We do care if people disrespect/slander what they THINK we do for this country and honestly it can be incredibly frustrating.

I seriously have to emphasize think in that statement because a lot of civilians listen to the media and just immediately assume they know everything that goes on in the world. If you do, you're ignorant and I hate to say that.

I am in the 7314 MOS which is an Unmanned Aerial Vehicle operator. So I've seen a lot and done a lot of things that I wont forget for some good and bad reasons. Do I really care if you appreciate it or not? If you do sure, if not then oh well, but definitely don't disrespect what we do.

I recently had a...Debate..I guess is what you could call it, with a middle aged man who had never served a day in his life about what we do in the middle east or during deployments. He said and I quote "All the military does is go to other countries, kill innocent people and destroy their land to try and westernize their culture to make everything American." Is this true? No. Have I killed people? Yes, have I killed innocents, not going to lie to you, I don't personally know. But I doubt my mission is to kill thousands of innocents when half of the time I'm giving out the last bit of my water to the children who bravely run up to us in 130 degree heat.

It is incredibly hard out in the middle eastern countries to really tell who is out to kill you and who is your ally, and I seriously mean that. A lot of those people are willing to do whatever it takes to prove themselves and have used women, children, animals and even corpses of their family members to attempt to kill us. Its very similar to Vietnam when we couldn't tell who we were fighting half of the time. They don't have uniforms so yes mistakes are made. I saw someone say that we've killed hundreds of thousands of iraqis which is completely false. We have not killed a % of the population, that would be considered a genocide and that hasn't happened since we bombed Japan, even then the first bomb didn't kill over a hundred thousand people. A large portion were killed due to the after effects over time which took several months. The second one killed around 80,000 people. So for you to say we've killed HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS is incredibly bold and I'd like to know where you got your facts from.

I know you're probably thinking "But its our fault for being over there in the first place." But guess what. I chose to join to better myself, and make something of my life. It's not my decision as to what I get to do or don't do in the military. Just because I'm in it doesn't mean I believe everything that I'm doing is completely just, nor do I have to agree with it. But I damn sure will do it because I took an oath and solemnly swore to defend my country against enemies foreign and domestic.

To sum it all up, its not the men and womens fault in uniform for the things that happen out their, it is not up to us to decide which orders we're given are right and which is wrong. We are given orders and we complete those.

Please put yourself in our shoes, if you're stuck in a country under 130+ degree weather, with people shooting at you, not knowing exactly who they are or anything even about them. Who do you want to go home? You, or them because sadly one of you isn't and its up to you to make that decision.

Sorry for the wall of text, Semper Fi (Always Faithul)

 

"4,486 American Soldiers Have Died in Iraq" - Huffington Post // The war has been waging on for over 10 years now, you'd be naive to think that the U.S hasn't contributed to the deaths of thousands of Iraqi's, especially if the U.S has lost 4 and a half thousand soldiers themselves. Since the U.S invaded Iraq and waged war studies estimate that 150,000 - 1 million Iraqi's died as a direct result of the war. A later study in 2011 concluded that the estimate was more so around the 500,000 mark. The U.S is indeed responsible for the deaths of hundreds of thousands of Iraqi's, you'd be naive to think otherwise. I'm not hating on the U.S army, I'm simply stating that the U.S army is responsible for mass death counts justified by government agendas to fight against terrorism, and stop Iraq from producing nuclear weaponry. U.S are just civilized terrorists.

 

This is what I mean by the people who follow only the media and simply the media. You haven't been over their nor have you contributed to anything that has gone on over their. The middle east has been more a danger to themselves more than we have. We are not solely responsible for every single death that has happened unto them. There were MANY other countries going on in that ever going conflict and I myself worked with quite a few of them. It wasn't simply Americans. I've worked with Russians, France, Canadians, Austrlians, UK, and even Germans. Not to mention the Iraqi police.

Also please remember that during the course of those 10 years it wasn't just Iraq that was effected. There were many other regions in the middle east that contributed to the war both allied and against us. Many of these weren't Iraqis but because (And I hate to do this) we as a whole idealize the entire middle east as solitary unit (meaning they're all the same) a lot of the deaths unto "Iraqi" people we're primarily not Iraqi. A lot of people don't realize we didn't actually do the majority of the "killings" in Iraq. We were the primary force for the invasion of Iraq, and yes we are responsible for some of the more notable battles, I.E Fallujah. But even then, we would have to amass hundreds of kills a day which, and I can tell you this first hand, is completely unsat for the US military. We don't like to get our hands dirty because that simply isn't how we fight wars anymore.

Hate to break it to you but we don't fight wars like the revolution anymore. It's not a huge blood bath where we just run at each other and murder everything. Believe it or not about 80% of people who deploy don't even fire a single round, 10% of the people who do don't actually hit someone, 8% of those who do wound their target and the last 2% actually kill them. This was a study which I myself was apart of during a sensus that was taken from 200,000 servicemen and women after coming back from deployment 3 years ago.

War isn't as ugly as you think.

 

You're right, I understand that 80% of the U.S soldiers wont even get to fire their weapon. The only ones who really get to see what war is really like are the Special Forces IMO, they're highly trained and are usually the ones behind enemy lines. What I meant to say was that the U.S invaded hence initiating a war which in turn LEAD to the deaths of 150,000 Iraqi casualties. Now obviously the U.S is NOT responsible for all 150,000 deaths individually, other parties are involved as you've stated and have contributed to this total count but their decision to invade was ultimately the force that initiated this death spree.

Of course wars aren't fought like the revolution anymore, there are too many regulations and rules of engagement for any soldier to just run rampant and engage at will, opening fire and slaughtering anyone they see fit. Also, like it or not, war is ALWAYS ugly, how else would you describe hundreds of thousands of deaths? It doesn't matter how the war comes about, or why it's being fought, death in large numbers is ALWAYS UGLY.

 

Ok, glad we're somewhat on the same page. For a moment I thought you were saying the US was solely the reason for the death toll that happened in the middle east.

Yes war is ugly, but a lot of people who haven't experienced war have a perception of war that is far from what the actual standard of war is. The generalization to what people think war is is just gruesome compared to what generally happens.

A matter of fact the US actually has one of the harshest ROE, and with being one of the few countries that actually still follows the most strict of protocols in the Geneva convention.

Its beyond frustrating serving in the US military in a combat zone. I have physically had people shoot at me, go behind any form of cover, and come out with their weapon on the ground and we simply have to let them walk away. They're called pop shots.

The majority of the military isn't to blame on what happens out there. I'm not just talking about the US on this one either. We just get told what to do, and that's that. All in all, not to be that guy but its the government most of you guys should be upset at.

 

Respect to you for serving in the Army and putting your life at risk for others. You're right, I was blaming the U.S army as a whole when really it's only a select few who make the calls as to what goes down. Soldiers merely follow the instructions of their superiors. Also, I can't imagine how frustrating that must of been for you having to follow the ROE when you're under fire. Anyway, keep safe out there if you return to the battlefield, .

 

Depends on the soldier, some do it for selfish reasons or some do it for protection/freedom, depends on where the soldier is from - personally I respect them because they keep me safe.

 

Marines* lol there are more branches than the disgusting army D: