An interesting look @ Squeal of Fortune & Treasure Hunter Evolution

When I'm bored, I often find myself looking back through the history of Runescape -- trying to dissect why/how the game got to where it was now, in 2015.

The reason I didn't put this in pictures & videos is because that despite there being picture and video content, this is a general topic thread in that it is designed to generate discussion.

A great way to re-vist the past is by watching Runescape content from popular (or formerly popular YT channels/users).

I thought that this video in particular was interesting:



In it, popular YT uploader Pjerry/CLS Product makes a video of him buying 75 spins. Squeal of Fortune preceded Bonds, TH, and most other pieces of content that people consider Jagex "selling out" or "Real World Trading".

The interesting thing I found, however, is that his loot was absolute garbage. Now, is the loot absolute garbage in Treasure Hunter? Yes, it usually is. But it is undeniable and irrefutable that Jagex has GREATLY scaled TH up in comparison to SOF.

It's interesting, because if Jagex had decided to never scale up the rewards - both monetarily and cosmetically- the "RWT" aspect of Jagex would be a lot less problematic & controversial. Buyers would simply NOT be rewarded for their purchases, and their monetary contribution to Jagex would go towards helping the game. Now, this unwinds a whole other ball of wax - Would you have been content with Jagex continuing to rip off its users by making the rewards nowhere near worth the cost of the spins/keys, or do you think people deserve to get an advantage based on their real world wealth? Try not to think in terms of Black Market dealings within Runescape, as that muddles the debate considerably - take your position as if you're adhering to Jagex's rules (Even though SOF+TH seem to be hypocritical in nature to their own rules).


Now, I realize this SOF video is a very small sample size to work with. Who knows, maybe other people got incredibly lucky with their spins back in the day (However, notice that the best prize is 10M, as compared to the 200M you can win in TH...a massive increase in potential prize money). I thought the video was so interesting because despite Jagex sort of going "Pay to Win" with Squeal of Fortune, it really wasn't as dire as people made it out to be (at least not comparatively to Treasure Hunter).

However, if you view my thread http://www.sythe.org/runescape-3-pictures-videos-progress-logs/1749920-450-th-keys.html - You will see that my rewards were incredibly more robust than CLS'. Could this be the result of a small sample size / small amount of data? Perhaps...but it could also point to the evolution and concept of "Pay to Win Scape" being very, very real...and not only real, but increasing in volume rapidly, to the point that even Jagex can't hide their obvious intentions.

I bought my keys in late 2014 (End of Summer) as an experiment of sorts. Not only did I win 200M, but I got a boatload of bonus xp. While I paid 100 dollars versus CLS' 20, my initial rewards (20$ worth) still throttled his (I won 200M and Silverhawk boots incredibly early on). I feel like this is because Jagex continues to water down their game with pay to win content - TH still isn't worth the price of keys 9 times out of 10, but the rewards have been seriously beefed up since SOF was introduced.

It's funny, because CLS rants about how there's no way SOF is worth it, all he ends up getting is 77k in items and a modicum of experience. I feel like Jagex should have KEPT it this way. Let dumb rich kids irl pay boatloads of money for basically nothing - yeah, some free XP, but a minuscule amount. Jagex tried to say TH was less micro-transaction(y) than SOF, but that was a huge lie - yeah, TH xp is usually not directly given, but bonus xp is just as OP, especially when it is given in way greater volume than xp was given in SOF. In addition, the monetary and cosmetic rewards increase ten-fold with TH as opposed to SOF.

My 450 keys? 4 MILLION bonus experience. Compared to CLS' maybe 100k, and that's a generous estimate.

Ultimately - The general point of this thread is to prove in a very disconcerting manner that Jagex continues to make Runescape easier and easier. While this may seem like I am belaboring the obvious - look past the obvious and into the more complex issues, like:

Why do you think Jagex ever went the Pay to Win/ Pay for xp direction?

My opinion: Jagex went this direction because the game was starting to dwindle/die in terms of player-base. Jagex realized their current player base was getting older, and that they had to cater to a new generation. They did this by taking a page out of many popular MMO'S playbooks - look no further than Evolution of Combat as one of the biggest updates in the history of the game. The generation under us is entitled and used to getting everything easy - Pay to Win Scape helps reward that line of thinking.

Do you agree with this business model? Why/why not?

My Opinion: If it was put towards the actual betterment of Runescape and creation of content - Yes, absolutely, micro-transactions are not as cancerous if the money is being used to better the game, not line the pockets of the fat-cats of Jagex. Even more problematic are their continued failed projects - that Transformers game wasted hundreds of thousands if not MILLIONS of dollars. So Runescape got watered down for what? A shitty Transformers game to not even make it out of Beta. That's Capcom level stupidity with finances (Spoiler alert: They went bankrupt).

Do you think Jagex could have increased revenue without offering advantages - cosmetic or otherwise - to Runescape?

My Opinion: Not sure, interested to hear your opinions.

Do you think Jagex intentionally beefed up Treasure Hunter as opposed to Squeal of Fortune to incentivize people into buying keys? Or do you think that the data I presented is too inconclusive to tell?

My Opinion: Absolutely, the proof is in the pudding - the pudding in this case being potential rewards from TH vs SOF (TH way more GP / XP rewards).

How else do you think Jagex will look for revenue in the future, and how do you think this will impact gameplay and difficulty of the game?

My Opinion: Rising membership costs (already done), more MTX. Getting all 99's will take a few months or less eventually.

 

Feels like I'm doing an assignment lol.

Why do you think Jagex ever went the Pay to Win/ Pay for xp direction?

More money. I feel that at some point down the line, many players' RS-related desires shifted heavily towards xp. RS as of late seems to revolve around gaining as much experience/money as possible. Jagex recognized this and adjusted their game accordingly.

Do you agree with this business model? Why/why not?

I'm of the opinion that these microtransactions have had a negative impact on the game, although maybe not to as strong a degree as others seem to believe. The pay to win style has had a slightly negative effect on the economy, but more importantly, I feel it has worsened the community.

Do you think Jagex could have increased revenue without offering advantages - cosmetic or otherwise - to Runescape?

This is a hard question to answer. There are obviously other ways that Jagex could have increased their revenue, although it's impossible to say whether these other methods would have been as effective/detrimental.

Do you think Jagex intentionally beefed up Treasure Hunter as opposed to Squeal of Fortune to incentivize people into buying keys? Or do you think that the data I presented is too inconclusive to tell?

Of course they did. Rewards, as you stated, are infinitely better than they were at the start of SOF. On top of that, there are more and more incentives for these microtransactions seemingly every week (i.e. discounts on TH keys, bonus daily key for premier membership, bonds redeemable for TH keys, etc.).

How else do you think Jagex will look for revenue in the future, and how do you think this will impact gameplay and difficulty of the game?

Again, a hard question to answer. I believe Jagex will continue to boost incentives for microtransactions, although it's hard to say exactly how. Perhaps they'll shift away from cosmetic rewards and toward more practical ones. Weapons only available for premium members or after redeeming X number of bonds? Increased chances of rare/super rare rewards based on how many keys you purchase? Who knows.

 

Lol @ assignment statement.

A follow-up question then, do you think Jagex should have kept the rewards so pitiful? The buyer would basically be getting screwed, but the over distribution of gp and experience would not be a factor.

 

This probably would've been the correct decision for the long-term success of RS, but as they say hindsight is 20/20.

You also have to consider that Jagex is a business at heart. While keeping rewards the same might feel like the right decision, boosting the rewards obviously increases their sales significantly. On top of all this, the halfway decent rewards and release of bonds has helped Jagex to combat RWT, which is always a major concern for them. The increase in rewards is wrong in my opinion, but not at all unexpected.

 

Basically everything you've said, well first of Jagex was bought a couple years ago and has new owners now. That was about the time when everything was getting updated (EoC and later on RS3). I guess they wanted that more new players try out and join Runescape (better graphics, much wow) which ended up in many people quitting Runescape for good. I see the progress of Runescape (3) as failed, but as long as the nostalgic/classic players have the opportunity to play oldschool Runescape I'm kinda fine since there are actually people enjoying the new RWTscape. For sure it's not what it used to be though, considering you can make more XP in slayer an hour now (150k+) than in 8+ hours back in the days. And obviously there's the sqeal of fortune which I do not feel like I need to say much about it, it's just sad to see.

 

Simply they were bought out, the shareholders don't give a fuck about the integrity of the game. They want increased numbers at the expense of gameplay. I think your analysis that its for additional content is BS, historically they've been able to provide engaging and rewarding content just fine. If eoc is what the money is buying, FUCK THAT.

I think its devastating to a game like RS. There is plenty they could have done to increase revenue, starting with not developing updates that'll push people away from the game. Something as major as EOC should have been polled, but they knew it'd fail miserably.

Pay to win with a game like RS I'm absolutely against. Its dirty how they did it too, slowly progressing from cosmetics to in-game rewards to outright selling rsgp.

Not that they needed to, but of course. Won't go into detail because there are countless ways.

Probably, but I mean the stuff they release in Treasure Hunter just gets more and more intrusive to the game.

Same bullshit.

 

I think you misread my initial post, I said if the money was being used for content (and not garbage like the piece of shit Transformers game), it would be easier to handle MTX.

 

That doesn't invalidate my point though. Yes, micro-transactions do go to shit like failed projects and "modernizing" the experience. But they also go to straight increased revenue to meet the demands of the US company that actually owns them now. Historically RS has proven that they don't need micro transactions to produce engaging content. Hell, it was written plainly that it was against their philosophy as a game company. But now they don't make their own decisions and someone is sitting with a fat stack of cash.

 

It's a stretch to relate MTX to strictly content. Prior to the Squeal and Solomon, think about what percentage of income came from goldfarmers. The gold sales were subsidized through membership paid by bots (at some points, easily 30%+ of paying members). Jagex essentially cut out the middleman by targeting bots (successfully I might add, for the first time in the game's lengthy history), and selling the gold themselves.

Subscription based gaming, unfortunately, seems to be on its way out of the market because the nature of how it caps earnings.

 

No doubt no doubt, I wasn't attempting to relate it to strictly content, was just envisioning a scenario where it was used for strictly content (which I know it never would).

I definitely agree that subscription based gaming is in trouble, didn't take long for ESO to go fee-less.