Arcus Gets to scam $3000

Show me the proof that you can dispute a refund from a paypal balance.

You keep saying that theirs evidence but I haven't seen any. That's complete and utter hearsay.

You CANNOT dispute a refund if it's from a paypal balance.

My point exactly. You're all going on the word of Arcus without any evidence. The only way i can see that a refund CAN be disputed is NOT through paypal. It's only if the refund was funded by a credit card then you'd be able to dispute the transaction through your credit card company but THAT IS NOT the case here. The refund was out of his paypal balance so he CANNOT DISPUTE IT WITH PAYPAL because you CANNOT dispute a REFUND.

You are 100% correct. It was his stupidity that got him in this mess so it should definitely be his burden to bear. But 6 months is way too much. and as you said, dealing with a company like paypal definitely complicates things.... Even if you get 100% verification that you indeed cannot dispute a refund, theres that chance that paypal may just in fact go against there own rules so you are right, if the case is ongoing n4n0 shouldn't of closed the thread and said it was done with so thank you for trying to work things out for the idiot that got hacked.

 

Guys, the bottom line is that there is no way any of you can ensure that this payment is 0 risk for Arcus. By your logic, Arcus should have sent the hacker $3,000 USD worth of BTC. If it wasn't for Arcus taking his time and investigating the situation, the seller would be TOTALLY SCREWED.

The bottom line is, Arcus has received a fraudulent refund for $3,000. The seller shit the bed here and got hacked. As Sythe clearly stated, he is now putting Arcus in a situation where Arcus is taking extra risk if he resends the payments.

If the staff want Arcus to refund the payment before 180 days, they should be willing to insure the payment. That is, if Arcus takes a loss by acting prior to the 180 days, the staff pays for it out of their pockets for ruling that he sends back the money. If the staff aren't willing to provide such insurance, it proves that this in fact is not a 0 risk payment, and that Arcus should hold the money for 180 days. This is a real example of "put your money where your mouth is".

PS: I am not saying the staff has mishandled this situation. I am simply pointing out that if Arcus is forced to repay prior to the 180 day timespan, then the people forcing him to pay should insure the payment, as they are ruling that the refund is literally 0.0000000000000000000000% risk.

 

Do you know how many times in this business that this has turned out to be a lie? When we started doing online bank transfers in Canada, they told us specifically that all transactions were final. Guess what, transactions got reversed.

When we started doing business on Moneybookers, they said that Chargebacks were covered! Guess what, they weren't.

When you ask anyone if a Bank Wire is irreversible, they'd tell you it is. But, once again, under certain situations... BANK WIRES ARE REVERSIBLE!

So if you are trying to quote some stupid old forum post from Paypal where some guy, whose affiliation with Paypal is "Admin" at the front of his forum login, as proof that a refund is 100% irreversible, you're NUTS.

Let me paint a scenario for you. My Paypal account gets hacked. The hacker initiates refunds to every single person who has ordered on my site in the past 60 days until my balance is entirely depleted. Tens of thousands of dollars.

My Paypal account is protected against unauthorized activity. It's clearly outlined in the EULA, and for Paypal to provide their service, they must stand by that policy. So, who is going to take the $20,000 USD+ loss? You're telling me Paypal is just going to let all these users keep the unauthorized refund money, and pay me back out of their own pocket????? Maybe you need to go take a couple of business courses.

They will CLEARLY reverse the refunds made on the account! It's clear as day. Come on guys, think a little.

 

There actually is some proof, and thus we sided with Arcus. Also, the guy will still get his money back, just in 180 days.

 

I had the exact same thought. The only reason staff haven't ordered him to refund the money is because it isn't a 0% chance of a charge back. Waiting 180 days or some other resolution such as a contract is the appropriate way to handle it.

 

If that IS true don't you think the guy who has the MOST to lose, the one who is actually out $3,000 right now would go to paypal and tell them that he was hacked and they'd give him back the $3,000?

But no, instead he posted a dispute on Sythe.

If it was as simple as you made it out to seem he would've done so already and gotten the refund reversed and gotten his $3,000 back by now.

That fact doesn't add up so it makes me believe that it is indeed impossible for paypal to reverse a refund that was issued from a paypal balance.

 

Duh, he was waiting for the refund before he charged back. Otherwise he'd just have what he started with. Now we'll see if he charges back prematurely =p

 

rsprod, stop posting on paypal.

https://www.paypal-community.com/t5...e-or-claim-an-unauthorized-refund/td-p/909385

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Also R2, as someone who works in a financial institution and processes wire transfers on a daily basis, the only time you can reverse a wire transfer is if a cancellation request is put in within 10 minutes of the wire going out. Please refer to UCC-4a Funds Transfer for the law on wire transfers. (This only pertains to domestic US wires obviously)

In cases of fraud, BOTH financial institutions would have to agree that it is indeed fraud and would have to initiate the reversal, and that would of course only happen if the money received is still in the persons account, once it's in the beneficiaries account and it's taken out... theres no getting it back.

 

^ you probably made it like a fag. but this is funny as shit none the less.

Only because you have a driving cat

 

Incontheivable.

 

#rekt

 

You start by claiming a wire can only be reversed if it's initiated in the first 10 mins, then admit a wire can be reversed in the case of fraud. In the case of someone like Arcus, he would certainly have a balance of $3,000 in his bank account, so if this payment was a wire, and was made fraudulently, then by your logic it could be reversed.

Regardless, this isn't a wire anyways, this is a Paypal Refund payment. And a fraudulent refund to boot. Also, just because you're a bank teller doesn't mean you know shit. I've had the most ridiculously incompetent bank tellers who say all kinds of stuff only for it to be proven completely untrue later on. You work at a financial institution, but I guarantee there's outlying cases that you would not be able to predict the outcomes of.

 

Like i said in my previous post, Even if it is fraud if the receiving bank determines it is NOT fraud, they don't HAVE to reverse it.

Clearly what i meant by "reversed" was that it can be reversed by yourself which it cannot be, the receiving institution has to AGREE to reverse the wire. In most cases of fraud only 1 party has to come to the conclusion that it was fraud for you to get your money back, in cases of wire transfers it has to be both parties.
Only if it was done within 10 minutes, or in time for a cancellation to be put through would be the ONLY way that you YOURSELF can reverse a wire transfer.

Bank tellers don't initiate wire transfers where i work. Read the law yourself R2.
UCC-4a Funds Transfer, like i said in my previous post.

I'm not sure why i'd even argue with you though, you clearly have reason to be bias.....

 

The bottom line is that if this refund was a bank wire, it could be reversed for fraud based on all factors:

1) It was unauthorized
2) The funds are still in Arcus' account, the guy obviously keeps decent balance
3) The receiving bank / sending bank are one party (Paypal)

So now what, you gonna tell me a Paypal refund is less reversible than a bank wire? Go ahead, make yourself look like an idiot.

 

I'm not even sure what the hell you're talking about anymore.

Especially since you just compared Paypal transactions to wire transfers. I was just talking about wire transfers, nothing about paypal. If paypal policies are that they do NOT reverse refunds, then that would be the case.

Anyway, seems that we lost track of the main issue here. A guy having to wait 6 months for $3,000 and you know EVERY single one of you would be PISSED right about now.

 

It's quite a simple point. The refund was fraudulent. Any fraudulent transaction can be reversed. End of story.

 

For someone like you, who deals with paypal on a day to day basis, do you REALLY think it's that simple?

You know more than most, or more than EVERYONE here that Paypal, and there policies are ridiculous.

Also, going by your simplicity, if it is that easy, why hasn't he gotten his refund from paypal? If it's as easy as phoning up paypal and claiming it was fraudulent why hasn't he gotten the $3,000 yet?!?!?!?!?!??!

 

I never said it would be easy to get the $3,000 back. All I'm saying is that it is POSSIBLE. Even if there's a 0.1% chance for him to get it back, Arcus should wait the 180 days. Furthermore, the seller has an incentive to delay reporting the fraudulent refund because once he initiates it he no longer has any chance of being resent the money by Arcus (assuming it is successful). If his intention is to be paid twice, he has disincentive to report it.

Even if he has no malicious intent, he may prefer Arcus to resend the payment than to initiate a fraudulent dispute on the refund. Disputes can take a long time to investigate, especially for something as obscure as this. It could take Paypal weeks to investigate this type of case.

 

He's said to have provided evidence that he's attempted to get the refund reversed by paypal and he was advised to contact Arcus.

So..... he's already reported the fraudulent refund and they said no.... so..... yea.....................................

Either way, 6 months is too long.

 

you fucking morons are arguing about a bank wire now?