Do you HONESTLY believe in God?

The idea of flying and the idea of GOD are the same though. Your argument suggested that is one believes in God, it MUST be real. I'm saying this isn't true, it may be true that one BELIEVES God to be real, but again, this doesn't make it so.

I find your argument to be self-serving. You're suggesting that the notion of perfection ISN'T perspective? If this is the case, perfection must either be true or false, 1 or 0, right or wrong. With that in mind, how can perfection be relevant to the existence of God without solid evidence?

 

Because God is the most perfect being imaginable.

 

Not true, your perception of "God" - what you want God to be might be perfect, doesn't make it so.

 

Take away God, and think of perfection only - you don't have to label it God. Either way, pure perfection itself exists based on my argument. Because God is a supremely perfect being, or perfection itself, the argument holds.

Additionally, the difference between a perfect being and flying was not explained adequately before. A perfect being necessarily exists, while flying contingently exists.

Lets try it from Anselm's point of view.

If something can be conceived to not exist, then something greater can be conceived. Therefore, a thing than which nothing greater can be conceived cannot be conceived to not exist and so it must exist.

Furthermore, according to Anselm: God is a being which no greater can be conceived. The idea of God exists in the mind. A being that exists both in the mind and in reality is greater than a being that exists solely in the mind. If God only exists in the mind, than we can conceive of a greater being - a God which exists both in the mind and reality. We cannot imagine something greater than God, therefore God exists.

 

We? Are you speaking for me now?

My problem with this argument is that it's not actually based on anything. We "must" this and "must" that... why must we?

And who says we can't imagine something greater than God? Or perfection, if the two aren't mutually exclusive in this scenario.

Also, who decided God was perfect? I don't believe that God is perfect, I don't believe that our existence conceived by any God or supreme being is perfect.

Argument is flakey as hell.

 

Give me an example of something greater than perfection.

You have the idea of perfection in your mind. If you do not, you would not be able to talk about it.

If you would like to contradict specific premise please do so, but I cannot tell which ones you are trying to contradict. To somewhat answer your question, we "must" because it logically follows.

 

There's nothing logical about assuming something must exist because you believe it to be real, that is far from logical.

The premise I'd like to contradict is the original one; the notion of God/a god is not the same as the notion of perfection, which is more of an ideology which changes from person to person. One persons idea of perfection might be chaos, another might be coincidence and another might be that some divine creator (God) has made it all easy for us, by laying out a path before us.

Just to clarify, are you saying God/A God must have created everything, because it's perfect, and cannot possibly have arrived in any other way?

Are you suggesting that however we (everything) came to be IS God? Whether we were created by a supreme being or the big bang or whatever, that this notion IS God?

 

The following articles provide proof that everything in the Christian religion and in the bible has been STOLEN from other religions that predated it from all around the world. Christianity is a tool for removing spiritual/occult knowledge from the populace so this power can be kept in the hands of a few to manipulate and enslave the masses.

To really understand the Bible and see the truth, one must be very well educated in the occult. The mass mind is very powerful. When one studies long enough and acquires advanced knowledge of the occult, the truth is utterly shocking. The entire Judeo/Christian Bible is a hoax of catastrophic proportions with a very clear objective using subliminal means and the channeled psychic energy of believers.*

Whenever Christianity or its cohorts took control of a country or region, the ancient spiritual texts and records were removed and/or destroyed and those who had spiritual knowledge were mass murdered by the Inquisition. This took out of circulation the very knowledge those in power have used and still use to manipulate the ignorant population using spiritual/occult power. The Bible is one of the most powerful subliminal tools used by a select few to enslave the masses. Most people are unaware of this because they lack knowledge regarding the occult, thought power, and psychic energy. The powers that be work to reinforce the belief that the occult, powers of the mind and spirit are nonsense or just plain bunk.*

Destroying the ancient records allowed an alternative invented "history" to be written which has disconnected humanity from its true origins. Controlling history is important because if one manipulates how people see what we call the past, this influences the present and the future.*

The entire Bible is an extremely powerful subliminal tool full of occult numbers, messages, allegories, and stolen material, which has been corrupted from ancient religions. In addition, this book has been infused with psychic energy and power to instill fear and to make it believable. When one's eyes are opened and one has the necessary knowledge, the *spell* will no longer be effective. The entire underlying theme of the Judeo/Christian Bible is the establishment of the fictitious history of the Jewish people in the mass mind. What the mass mind believes has power and the energy to make manifest in reality as thoughts are energy*

 

Yes I believe in god.

 

I do believe in god, however I don't really follow all the rules of the bible. "Do this or you will go to hell" I don't believe god would punish his creation in an eternity of pain for a simple matter such as having sex before you're married.

 

Perfection does not exist, therefore your argument is invalid.

 

What you just said was: my conclusion is wrong, so it is wrong. Not a valid argument. To counter this argument, you need to shoot down the premises, not the conclusion.

 

Where's your reply to my previous comment?

Also, shooting down a premise isn't necessity required when the original argument is flawed.

 

Perfection existing is your premise.

 

I dont even no sometime i do sometimes i dont

 

If you belive, you lose nothing. If you don't you lose everything. -Einstein

Just think about it.

 

That's how I also viewed this.

If somehow, this is all real and there is an afterlife, then everything you did up to that point was not pointless and beneficial.

Not accepting this, and being too big-headed may be your downfall in the end. Sure you might be right, but what is the reward?

There is nothing wrong with having faith in something, it gives you motivation to have a fruitful life. A clear example of that is my grandparents. Without all of this, what is their purpose?

 

That's not the point. I can't just say, "Oh, yeah, I guess I don't have anything to lose. Let me just turn my 'believe in god' switch on." I don't believe in god(s) because there is no reason to. You're not going to convert me with some flawed logic or solely because of "faith."

I don't see your first point. "If somehow, this is all real and there is an afterlife, then everything you did up to that point was not pointless and beneficial." By "this" I assume you mean heaven/an afterlife. If heaven is not real, how is your life pointless? If you live a good life and do something that people will remember you by, then would that not give your life meaning. There are many people talked about in history, psychology, etc books and how can their lives be pointless if we still talk about them? Yeah, in the big picture, the human species will one day go extinct and there will be no one to remember you by, but this will happen regardless of whether or not God (a religious god, anyways) exists.

Also, why do I need a reward for living? Why do I need a reward for being good? I'd rather be good for the sake of it being a better aspect in improving society than be good for the sake of some alleged and uncertain reward upon death.

Finally, how does faith give you motivation to have a fruitful life? Like I said, I think it's more important to have people remember you by what you did and have your name still talked about for centuries to come than be rewarded after you die. That way, it doesn't matter if heaven is real or not. I die knowing people will talk about me. That's my motivation. Not faith.

 

tl;dr so I'm not sure what you have posted up to this point, but let me shed some of my light.

There are approximately 11 million species of life on earth, including humans. Did all of these, including the universe itself, begin by chance? That's like an equivalence of unlocking a bike lock that have 10 digits on it. It's near impossible that earth just formed from some random atom and made all this possible.

 

But some god that has the power to create something from nothing and was always there makes sense?
I don't see how it's "near impossible." Just because you don't understand something or because it doesn't make sense doesn't mean that its probability is lowered.