Does belief in moral principles necessitate a belief in God?

NickV · Oct 20, 2013

So the topic is the argument.

Writing a Philosophy of Religion paper, need three good points as to why belief in moral principles does not necessitate a belief in God, and hitting a brick wall on the points I've attempted to discuss in my paper. The points need arguments for and against them. Was leaning towards turning this towards the legal perspective of punishment of lack of morality, and bringing up the Code of Hammurabi

Throw some ideas my way!

Lame · Oct 20, 2013

Two interesting points i have found. Not sure how use full they will be.

Towards 1880, when the French professors endeavoured to formulate a secular morality, they said … nothing will be changed if God does not exist; we shall rediscover the same norms of honesty, progress and humanity, and we shall have disposed of God as an out-of-date hypothesis which will die away quietly of itself.
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Beyond its objectivity, what is sometimes called the ‘moral law’ is not analogous to the scientific concept physical ‘laws’. When I trip up, falling is something I am caused to do, not something I am obliged to do! The ‘moral law’, on the other hand, prescribes (but does not cause) actions that I am obligated to do or to refrain from doing. While I never fail to ‘obey’ the ‘law’ of gravity, I often fail to ‘do the right thing’. A physical law describes what is the case, and can be used to predict what will be the case, but it doesn’t prescribe what ought to be the case as does the ‘moral law’. Now, as Francis J. Beckwith and Greg Koukl observe: "A command only makes sense when there are two minds involved, one giving the command and one receiving it."[8] If an objective moral law has the property of being a command that we receive, then there must be an objective, personal, moral commander beyond individual or collective humanity. As G.E.M. Anscombe affirmed concerning an objective moral law: "Naturally it is not possible to have such a conception unless you believe in God as a lawgiver; like Jews, Stoics, and Christians… you cannot be under a law unless it has been promulgated to you…"
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The existentialist, on the contrary, finds it extremely embarrassing that God does not exist, for there disappears with Him all possibility of finding values in an intelligible heaven. There can no longer be any good a priori, since there is no infinite and perfect consciousness to think it. It is nowhere written that 'the good' exists, that one must be honest or must not lie, since we are now upon the plane where there are only men. Dostoevsky once wrote: 'If God did not exist, everything would be permitted'; and that, for existentialism, is the starting point. Everything is indeed permitted if God does not exist, and man is in consequence forlorn, for he cannot find anything to depend upon either within or outside himself."[3]

• Paul Kurtz: "The central question about moral and ethical principles concerns their ontological foundation. If they are neither derived from God nor anchored in some transcendent ground, they are purely ephemeral."[4]

• Julian Baggini: "If there is no single moral authority [i.e. no God] we have to in some sense 'create' values for ourselves ... [and] that means that moral claims are not true or false… you may disagree with me but you cannot say I have made a factual error."[5]

• Richard Dawkins: "The universe that we observe has precisely the properties we should expect if there is, at bottom, no design, no purpose [i.e. no God], no evil, no good, nothing but pitiless indifference."[6] Dawkins concedes: "It is pretty hard to defend absolutist morals on grounds other than religious ones."[7]
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Heres a couple links that might help you brainstorm some ideas as well.

http://www.frame-poythress.org/do-we-need-god-to-be-moral/
http://www.bethinking.org/right-wrong/advanced/can-moral-objectivism-do-without-god.htm

NickV · Oct 21, 2013

lame123 said: ↑

Two interesting points i have found. Not sure how use full they will be.

Heres a couple links that might help you brainstorm some ideas as well.

http://www.frame-poythress.org/do-we-need-god-to-be-moral/
http://www.bethinking.org/right-wrong/advanced/can-moral-objectivism-do-without-god.htm
Click to expand...

Hey,

Really appreciate it. Writing three ten to twelve page papers for different philosophy classes at the same time is making my brain have a meltdown. Will probably use the two 1800s philosophers as an example!

Pockets · Oct 21, 2013

Check out Kant and his Categorical Imperative

Emperor Nero · Oct 21, 2013

Make sure to check out St. Thomas Aquinas and St. Augustine to be well versed in the counter arguments to your points, just in case it comes up.

Arya · Oct 23, 2013

I'm personally of the opinion that morals don't necessarily have to equate to a belief in a higher power.

Though the only 'laws' that require moral upholding are legal laws and religion ones, there can exist a mind set that prefers upholding certain morals without the fear of consequence of defiance. My own reason pertains to the physiology of the human experience; what you think and do, you mentally become and your body is directly affected. Regret, sadness, confusion, etc, all cause strain on both your body and your mind, and so to uphold the moral (for instance) that killing someone is wrong (in a sense that I do not wish to kill someone) is not related to my belief in a higher being or my not wanting to be caught (psh), but to the fact that I understand, to some extent, what your mind undergoes when you've collected enough hate to be able to take another life.

As I'm sure there are other reasons for upholding certain characteristics of the self that are described in moral standing.

Been up 30+ hours and can't really think much more than that at the moment, though I'm sure there's more I'd like to expand on when I'm mentally able.

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