The "bot nuke" what is it exactly.

So reading several posts here there seems to be some people that think they know everything about what is coming (which is common that someone wants to fluff their own feathers by bullshitting), but I am going to look at why nothing will happen from this "bot nuke".

Firstly what can they do to break bots?

1) Detect injection on the client, however this is exceptionally unreliable as someone who gets an error and uses a debugger will be flagged as well and Fagex doesn't seem to keen on banning their memberbase that is legit. Also doesn't affect reflection as reflection injects a ghost client not the actual one.

2) Rearrange the way that commands are called in the client, this will break all Injection/reflection bots for a bit until people understand what they changed then it will back to usual. Color/Animation bots are unaffected by this.

3) Changing color/animations to break Color/animation bots, color based bots will just change the colors and be back immediately, animation bots will take longer to return, Injection/reflection unaffected.

All of the ways have their drawbacks, especially rearranging commands in the client as this could lead to glitches that can crash the economy so its likely Fagex will avoid that.

Its impossible at the moment for them to ban on the amount of hours you play unless sessions are manually patched together because each new session on a bot is counted as a new "client" (for injection/reflection anyways), the only way sessions will be manually patched together is if you continuously bot in an area that is well populated by idiots that play legitimately, as they will likely report you, and enough reports will get you looked at.

I also seen that someone posted that with Botany bay you will be watched 24/7, I find this hard to believe, how can you reliably discern a bot from a player without having cases of players getting banned improperly?

You cannon ban based on paths as Runescape client autopaths the fastest way so Fagex would ban half of their membership, You also cannot ban based on experience gain/time as then many legit tricks to get lots of fast XP will result in you getting banned. Jagex also doesn't have enough staff to simply send someone to every single account of someone botting to say HEY IM FROM JAGEX TALK TO ME, and not only that but there are small children who play this game who's parents likely turn off public chat because of its content and you can't ban these people for not responding.e

The million dollar question is how can they tell, well it doesn't seem like they can actually reliably point one or the other out and are just doing a smoke and mirror trick for the thousands of legit's who cry about bots.

 

I do not agree at all, because you forgot to mention ,that they can use statistic analyse to determite whetever you are bot or not?

You leave lot of info for them.

If you cut 20 hours day.
If you do not chat in clan chat/private chat etc.
If you do it still in same speed ,without any brakes.
If you keep cutting wood for months....

etc
etc

There is lot of information that they can use for their analyses.

 

Jagex already has a system that shows J Mods who are investigating an account for macroing the amount of time that the player in question has been logged into RS each day, and they can even check the specific times that you logged in and out. Their systems go back a few weeks if not more. This means they are checking for inhuman play-time or intense sessions that lack realistic breaks.

Quote from Mod Mark:

That was said by Mod Mark on August 9th. Mod Emilee has been seen on the RSOF saying that it will not be just one update and *poof* all the bots are gone. She said it is a system that will be constantly running. That would mean 24/7

Also, in the Behind the Scenes video for Botany Bay, at this point in the video http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=F...v=7HfXCd1hnXg&feature=player_detailpage#t=34s the following is said:

And at your last question of the above quoted section of your post, it's honestly not that difficult. There is a huge difference between human mouse movements and the ones we currently see from most botting sites and platforms. One of the biggest things J Mods rely on for banning bots now, and have in the past, is J Mods manually looking at the mouse movements of the account in question and planting them on a graph, which from there it is very easy for Jagex to determine who is botting and who is not. The new Automated Detection System that Mod Mark was referring to in his interview will replace that manual work of J Mods, meaning instead of requiring a team of employees to go through accounts one by one, they can easily do it on all accounts at once with little to no manual work from a J Mod. It is possible to pass as human from this test with your mouse movements, however the only programmer I know that has accomplished this with public bots has a degree in Computer Science and Mathematics, and he even said that it would be exceedingly easy for him to create a system to automatically detect the difference between a bot's movements and a human's. Not really that surprising considering this programmer was even interviewed by Jagex for a job position due to his knowledge in programming and graphics.

Actually you can. Lemme refer you to this: http://iseclab.org/papers/botdetection-article.pdf

Wouldn't be that difficult to add it as a factor.

Exactly, they don't have a large enough staff team to do all the manual work. That's why the automated system approach was taken and why it will be more efficient and more effective than manual inspection.


There are probably a few other factors they could use to try and automatically detect bots, however I'm content with the length of this post as it is.

 

They can't ban you for doing the same activity over and over again, because that's the point of the game, nor can they ban you for trying to be as efficient as possible because that is another part of the game, some people aren't in clan/friends chat either.

Its very simple to avoid bans by simply botting fishing then cooking then wc then combat then x ECT. They don't have a reliable method to prove beyond reasonable doubt someone is botting other than asking them literally if you are botting for a response.

Really? How come some of my accounts haven't been banned yet that have been logged in for about 2 weeks straight minus 20 minutes a day for session reloading and the odd DC from shitty internet? The log would show that I was online the entire time, but zero of the 8 accounts are banned. Their systems are flawed at detection.

In the quote he goes in to absolutely zero detail other than an automated bot catching system that WONT work because there is no way to have it not flag real players because of the complexity of some bots.

I know who he is referring to, and I have a better degree in mathematics than him. What will happen is that eventually someone will record mouse movement and then they will be able to replicate it using a bot, because I am assuming that he is referring to the somewhat static mouse paths bots use. It wouldn't take long to develop that then it completely games the system Jagex will put out that they spent three months making and you simply have to make the "mouse" take different paths to the same point.

I already addressed that paper in my original post, they CANT use pathing in the game to decide if someone is bot or not because runescape automatically takes the shortest path along with the fact that some skills don't require moving or the moving they do won't flag the system (combat movement).

What other factors could they look at, they current can look at sessions and mouse pathing which can easily be defeated by existing and ancient bot technology, they don't have shit they can do.

 

big brother is watching you?
where's with the freedom of the users to not getting monitored by fagex the whole time?

the new facebook which collect informations about you?

i think that would make someone quit rs it this would be true

 

It is blatantly obvious to me that you have absolutely no knowledge of how Jagex detects bots or how the ICU department functions at all. I have a friend who is rather famous to J Mods and he can commonly speak with many of them. He has even shown me screenshots of some of his conversations with them. Honestly, you are making assumptions and we all know that Assume makes an Ass of U and Me. Everything I state about what Jagex's detection system contains or does is based on fact from the words of Jagex Mods, many of which actually work in the department where they ban bots.

Did I ever say this was automated? No. They have this feature for Jagex Mods to MANUALLY check on accounts they are suspecting of botting. It's not like they have an automated system as of yet that just searches all the high play time accounts and displays them for the J Mods. This system works by the J Mod finding an account they want to check, then they enter the username of the account into the system to check the hours spent in-game. Just because your account hasn't been banned does NOT mean you got away free. It means that you have not been manually investigated by a J Mod and they have not checked your records. I've had 6 accounts banned at the same time right in front of my eyes after they were topping off a 72 hour proggy. Jagex was picking off my accounts one by one, right in front of my eyes. I had the brains enough to quickly shut off and log out of the remaining half of my accounts, and those were untouched. Point being, that even if you're suicide botting, if Jagex doesn't check your account history, or doesn't actually catch you in the midst of running your bots, you are likely to remain untouched. Their new automated system *may* change this, however that much I do not know.

Believe that all you want, but later this month when it's released and I can still bot 8-12 hours a day and remain untouched, while bots all around Runescape are swarmed with the Dragon Claw of Death (Botany Bay feature temp and perm banning accounts automatically), and perhaps your very own accounts are caught, we'll see who was right.

Oh do please tell me who you believe I am referring to.

Also, you're making more assumptions, remember, Assume = Ass of U and Me.
Humans do not follow any set formula or equation for their movements. It's not as simple or easy as just 'recording mouse movements' and scripting the equation.

Can I ask you a question? Have you ever even scripted your own mouse algorithms or programmed your own bot? Your responses are making it appear increasingly so that you have not, or if you have, it's very basic at the most.

Bots have not used static paths for years, except exceedingly primitive scripts with inexperienced scripters. Anyone who has any common sense these days will make their bot take a different path and click in a different spot of an item, object, NPC, etc. This has been done for years now, and that still does not stop Jagex from detecting the mouse movements (however it does throw off their relatively primitive automated system they have in place currently for a bit, but that does nothing against manual J Mod inspection. Lemme see if I can find some samples I have comparing human to bot movements.

I've got two pictures here cause I don't feel like putting in the time to get more simply for this reply:

1


2


What do you think of each picture? I used a program that draws on a canvas wherever your computer's mouse goes. Before I started I set the canvas to be Runescape right before the task of dropping an inventory of fish and then clicking on a fishing spot to fish more.

Obviously you didn't even take the time to fully read the article, or you just don't understand how bots in RS generate paths and navigate around the game world. It literally does not matter even a bit if RS takes the shortest distance between points. Jagex could very easily do a lot of what they did in the article (which you should actually try reading this time, as it will actually enlighten you greatly). A bot in RS that requires running back and forth between locations will always click on the minimap within a set range of (x,y) coordinates of the RS game world. Injection/reflection bots will use an actual X,Y value stolen from the game code itself to help in this task, and Jagex will find, should they do something similar to that article, that bots will always stay within the same general coordinates. Humans are unpredictable and if Jagex were to track the same information, they would see so much variation and randomness of where the account is travelling to, the time it takes to get there, the number of clicks it takes to get there, the map coordinate range, etc. Jagex will simply have to generate graphs showing plot density, the consistency of the overall path, and many other things that are explained further in the article. Just because not all bots run around or walk, doesn't mean that this would not be a useful thing to track and check to detect bots who do move around.

Well just to name one thing: When Jagex looks to mass ban certain types of bots (let's say, Green Dragon Killer bots, for example) they could watch and monitor many of the different accounts doing this activity, across multiple worlds. If the botters are using the same script, it makes it possible for Jagex to be able to noticeably find similarities if not direct replication of the same behaviors or actions. They can use overwhelming similarities and matches as evidence to ban your account. This is especially common with widely used bots which have their code publicly visible/attainable, or that can be cracked and have their source code shown to Jagex themselves. If Jagex can look at your source code, that means they can directly find out how it works and how accounts using the bot will behave and react under certain situations, meaning it will make it easier for Jagex to determine whether or not you are botter, should you be using one of these scripts. Now, a great way to combat this would be to make a private bot, and not leak the code. Now as nice as private bots are, the problem is that not everyone can access it, hence the word private. There is only one bot site that I can think of that uses a feature called 'Unique Styles,' which means that every single user is using a bot that behaves, moves, and reacts, or plays different than any other user with the same bot. Let me copy and paste a bit more information about such a system, as you may not fully understand the concept:

Sorry if this is a bit long, but meh:

Now I'm not advertising RiD here, I'm simply providing an example as to how unique styles can give you a massive edge against the bot detection systems, and even manual inspection. If the bot you're using behaves and acts different than everyone else who is using the same bot as you, then it makes it a helluva lot more difficult to group you in with other bots doing the same thing as you.

Honestly, I can tell simply by your OP and the nature of your posts that your arrogance means it is unlikely that you will take anything I say seriously, or even consider the notion that you could be wrong or may be proven wrong as soon as the update is launched. You really should start basing your statements off of facts instead of making assumptions and then deflecting anyone who points out the flaws in your assumptions.

Assumption: "A thing that is accepted as true or as certain to happen, without proof"

^^^is exactly what you are doing, and you cannot deny that, and if you do deny that, you are proving to be more arrogant than I thought.

 

What they did in the first bot nuke caused a lot of problems for all players and most of the changes have been reverted. They could change the inner workings of the client dramatically to break everyones hooks however after a month or so bots would be back. What they really need to do is be changing the patterns of fields and methods inside the client so that there is no pattern.

 

I'm going to admit this is all TL;DR for me. However, I want to add my simple $.02 in the form of a few paragraphs.

Jagex mods have confirmed that the "nuke" is not another cluster flutterer or anything at all that is designed to "break" bots. Runescape will still be able to be botted. Their "bot nuke" this time is a massive overhaul to their detection system, which they claim to be one of a kind in MMORPGs. This detection software automatically bans you when it decides you are botting.

They were supposed to implement the "prototype" phase of it by auto-banning the auto-talkers you see in the GE. These are obviously very easy to detect from real people, especially because of the extremely complicated messages they type flawlessly over and over again (such as "RSGP 10m = $5.6, 10m=$11.2, 100m= $56 ~ _ R ~ S ~ W ~ A ~ L ~ M ~ A ~ R ~ T ~ DOT ~ C ~ O ~ M" and so on. To be honest I almost always have chat on Hide so I wouldn't know one way or the other if this has been implemented.

As far as banning real bots and not just auto-typers, I don't know how they will do this. They have a much tighter lid on this topic. All I know is that JMods are claiming it is 99% accurate, and will implement when the margin of error is reduced significantly. My guess is they will focus on one of two things. Firstly, it will focus on EVERYTHING you do, from mouse clicks to track paths and so on. The amount of server data needed to track hundreds of thousands of mouse clicks per second and the track paths is massive, so I simply do not see this happening. Even with the document Trent came up with, I still see it far-fetched for it to truly be monitoring every single RS account at all times. It would either melt Jagex's existing servers (infamously shitty already), or it will cost them far too much in server rentals. (Trent's document did not really say how much CPU/RAM/Network use the program uses to track mousepaths, but I'm willing to say it's substantially higher than the Runecsape average demand is now.) The other option I'm curious to see is their now-useless random events; they can track patterns only in these, so they can globally detect client use rather than script use, since new scripts are developed daily and would be difficult to keep up with. This leaves holes like SW and dungeoneering bots, so it's not a perfect system either.

 

They could actually detect if you are using your mouse whilst playing RuneScape, e.g you're doing something else while clicking something in RuneScape.

If they were to make 100 variants of the maze random then I'm sure bots would get stuck.

 

How? The paper had ten subjects being tested; Runescape has hundreds of thousands. As far as I could tell, there was no mention of the amount of resources necessary for WoW to implement the software.

 

They actually already have the means too. They detect where your mouse is when playing RuneScape even if it's not on the canvas. This is done via a DLL file which uses native calls, the use for it currently is to paint the rs cursor on the RuneScape canvas when the cursor is on the canvas and to not draw it when it's not.

 

This is the closest thing I could find, not the full answer but more of a glimpse: "Our testing shows that it takes WOWalyzer less than two seconds to process four hours of gaming time on a single-core, 1.6-GHz Pentium-M."

It's fully possible that the systems will simply track certain variables, and not actually process the information to determine if they are botting until X minutes/hours pass, when they've gathered more information. This would mean that instead of processing and comparing information every second of every day, it stores and logs as much information as it thinks should be enough to make a decision, then processes all of the data, and then bans if they are caught. It only took 2 seconds to go over 4 hours of gameplay on a single core Pentifum-M processor, imagine the time it would take to do ~140,000+ accounts. It really doesn't seem to be that big of a feat considering it's fully possible that Jagex separates the system by world, so that the system runs independently on each world, this would free up resources and would allow for Jagex to split the resource load across all worlds. This is all theory, and could be very different than what Jagex does, but hey, at this point we can only guess certain things.

 

2 seconds for 4 hours of gameplay seems fast, but keep in mind Runescape runs 100k accounts or more. If you can extrapolate 12 seconds = 24 hours of gameplay, then it should take that processor 120,000 seconds (33.3 hours) to process all of Runescape. Just to get it down so that the processors keep up with the 4 hours (i.e., take 4 hours processing time to analyze 400k hours of gamers simultaneously), you would need 9 of them running. It actually seems promising. You can rent 12-core servers for around $200-$300 a month.

However, I wonder how different it works from WoW to Runescape. For instance, most of WoW is controlled with the keyboard if I remember correctly. This is especially true for grinding (and not raids/PvP), which bots tend to focus on. In short, Runescape has a lot more mouse tracking because it's almost completely controlled by the mouse. Therefore, is Runescape much more demanding on servers?

 

I don't think it would be that bad, because really, as long as Jagex writes some form of algorithm to simply know where on the RS Applet the mouse is (very simple X,Y coordinates) and their new system simply saves each change, creating a plot on a graph, which they could very easily program a system that would be able to look at the graph and the way the mouse moved and determine whether or not it is human or a bot.

 

Generating a graph is not the problem, nor is deciding where the RS window is on your screen. The problem with Runescape is that the mouse is used for everything, so there would be considerably more data to be graphed than WoW.

 

Couldn't the system use threads in order to check more than one account at once?

 

I don't get this. Why even play a game you don't enjoy even half the time playing it? Money? I highly doubt 99% of the people here have the resources to bot as much as you would make at even a shitty job. You could rake your old neighbors lawn in an hour which takes less effort than trying to keep 50 bots going and make more money.

OT: I don't think they will be nuking bots really. It has to be a detection system instead of just a bot nuke again. Why would they release content (Botany Bay) Then nuke bots so they won't work. There wouldn't be any bots to even send there for a long time.

 

I just watched the jagex official ********** and your information seems a bit inconsistent. The title makes it seems you know exactly what you're talking about, but you don't work for jagex so I wouldn't see how you would know "exactly" how it works.

 

Bot Nukes do not affect all bots. There's a reason they said in their first statement about the Bot Nuke in 2011, that it would be breaking 98% of bots, not 100%. The other 2% of bots would be Scar, Simba, Robotz in Disguise, or other bots that function by what they view on the screen (being color) and not what they see in the game code.

Also, in the live stream on bots they did mention Optimus being some form of a bot nuke, breaking 98% of bots again, and then the new Botany Bay and automated detection system banning the other 2%. Now I know that they will not be successful in detecting all of the bots in-game, as bots such as RiD actually pass as human under systems such as this. Jagex will continue to think that they're catching every bot because they can't tell a RiD user apart from a real user, so their systems continue to think they've caught every bot. You can't catch something that shows up as human even under manual investigation, because it simply looks like a normal player.