A (gay?)Marriage Question

***MOD: If the title isn't right, plaese change it to a fitting one. Also, this could go in General, so if so, I don't mind if you move it Thanks.

So I thought of something, it's not really a big deal, and I don't have anything against homosexuals..or... transvestites.


My question: (with some buildup)

Bob is a man. Bob doesn't want to be a man. Bob, luckily, has some money. So after 2 years and a few thousand dollars, Bob, turns into Bonnie.

Bonnie is...a...uhm...woman. (or is he/she...?) Bonnie is lonely. Bonnie wants love.

Fred is a man. Fred is straight and is attracted to females. Fred meets Bonnie. Bonnie informs Fred that he used to be Bob. Long story short they get married.
_______________________________________________________________________________________

So, my question Sythe is:

What gender is Bob/Bonnie?
Is Fred, knowing "B" was male, homosexual?

And would the marriage be classified as a gay one? Man+He/She?


**Anything said here was just out of curiousity. I'm not poking fun or disrespecting anyones feelings. To each his own; do what makes you happy.

 

I would view Bonnie as a woman, because that is what she sees herself as. I believe there is more to gender than what is between someone's legs.

As for the marriage, I'm not sure how it's viewed. I remember reading somewhere the if the transgendered person is post operation, it would be viewed as man/woman. If not, it would be gay marriage. Don't quote me on that though.

 

Joker... I'm quoting you :love:
get it?! haha, but seriously... thanks for the comment!

Glad to hear you would think Bonnie is a female, i probably would too.
However... you said gender is more than what is between the legs.. well.. is it?
wasn't that the problem with women wanting "equal rights"?


Penis = male
Vagina = female

If I thought for years I was a girl, but was obviously a man, i would still be a man.

I don't think one can "change" themselves without actually.. changing. (surgery)


Thanks again for your reply!

 

This seems to be a simple question.

You have already answered the question yourself. You said that Fred is heterosexual. He is attracted exclusively to females. Fred would not marry a man. So in his eyes, Bonnie is a woman. In the eyes of the state, she is a woman. She is for all intents and purposes a woman. You could still consider the marriage homosexual, but you'd be contrary with marriage law. The law considers the marriage heterosexual. Aka don't be a bigot.

Also the term "HeShe" is derogatory.

I'm not trying to be harsh, I just think this is a shallow topic.

 

Fixed HeShe to He/She. Ment no harm.

As for the topic Snatch, I'm just interested. Not trying to be shallow or immature.

What about Bonnie/Bob's brain? conscience? and if you believe in it; soul? Those can't be changed right?

 

Do you think that the intangible qualities of a soul are dependent upon gender? People who undergo gender changing surgery are given hormones. They are chemically similar to whatever sex they are changing to.

 

IMO, Fred is gay. All the visual aspects of Bob may be feminine, but he knows that Bob used to look like a man. You cant ever change that. He may not be attracted to the physical features of men but he marries one all the same, the outside is just different but all in all he married a man. Bob isn't a woman and never will be, no matter how much he dresses himself up he will always be a man.

I also think the state would recognize Bob as a woman and allow them to marry since he has woman body parts now. But Im not completely sure on this because the law varies from different states. Northern states are more accepting of that than southern states. So my previous statement would apply to a northern state.

 

imo its strait... bonnie has formed femanine qualities therefore is viewed as a female to the world not knowing she use to be a he. I understand and also see how it can be viewed as gay but me keeping an open mind think this can go both ways but is strait in any unknowing bystanders eyes.

 

Laws are dependent on the state. Marriage hasn't been given 'fundamental right' status and therefore is up to interpretation by state.

 

Bob is no more. It is Bonnie. And bonnie looks like a girl and is physiologically a girl. Your argument is invalid. If I dated a girl who used to be fat, does that make me a chubby chaser? If he isn't attracted to men, how is he gay? If he takes hormones and takes surgery he will legally become a woman. Why won't he become a woman? If he has the physical characteristics of a woman, the hormones of a woman, and identifies herself as a woman, how isn't she a woman?

 

Comparing weight is completely different. You weren't born weighing more than you currently weigh. On just because you dress him up doesn't make him a woman. There is more to being a woman than having looks. He may have all the body parts of a woman but he has male genetics. Say Fred and "Bonnie" have sex, will Bonnie get pregnant and have a baby? Will Bobs pussy get wet when aroused? Will Bob get a period? No, he doesn't posses the necessary organs. So Bob is not a woman. Some things you can't change no matter how hard you try.

Also Fred may not be attracted physically to a man, but if he knowingly has sex with a man that looks like a woman he's not gay? By your definition it goes farther than looks, Fred could be sexually attracted to the way Bob sneezes. This is (by your definition) gay.
Tell me why my argument is invalid.

 

Bonnie is still a man. Just check his genetic makeup. Y-Chromosome, anyone?

 

Thanks for the detailed answer, makes sense.

Thatguy seems to be on the right track... I agree with not being able to compare weight with body parts. Losing fat isn't the same as losing a reproductive organ.

AWWWWYEEEEEE.. Dat Y-Chromosome. i forgot... hm...

 

You can disagree with me all you want, but the United States recognizes Bonnie as a woman. Fred is heterosexual and only attracted to women. If he has intercourse with a woman, how could that possibly be construed as homosexual? You may disagree with the effectiveness of the surgery, but Bonnie will have female genitalia and the characteristics of a woman. Bonnie doesn't have a penis, she doesn't speak, look, or act like a man. Fred is attracted to her femininity (you might think she is unattractive, but she is female in appearance and sexual activity). How is he homosexual? He isn't attracted to men. You seem to be very hung up on the fact that Bonnie was once Bob.

Bonnie takes hormones etc. She is very close to a woman. Chemically Bonnie is far closer to being a woman than a man.


What if a girl has red hair. She dyes her hair to blonde. I'm really into blondes only. If I date and have intercourse with her, does that mean I'm into ginger girls? She has the genetic coding of red hair. Assuming she regularly waxes her body hair, and I have never seen a red hair on her body, does that still make me into redheads?

 

You keep bringing in situations that don't even come close to the complexity of a gender change. Changing hair color and changing genders are completely different. Just because the United States may recognize Bob as a woman doesn't mean he is a woman. What about in other countries? In China will Bob be recognized as a woman?

You also just proved my point and contradicted yourself. You said Bob is very close to being a woman. Bob is not a woman no matter how close you get no matter how hard you try. You recognize the fact that Bob is a man so there is no further argument on that subject.

"(you might think she is unattractive, but she is female in appearance and sexual activity)"
This is false, I never said she is unattractive.
Bob may look similar to a female female but that doesn't make him a woman. Bob is not female in sexual activity, Bob cannot get wet as a woman can. Bob is not able to get pregnant. Bob does not have a natural clitoris covered with nerves. Bob is not a woman.

Chemically Bob is closer to being a man. Bob doesn't have female genetics, Bob may have all the looks of a woman but he chemically isn't. He has the genetic make up of a man. As the user above me stated, Bob has Y chromosomes. Bob isn't chemically closer to being a woman than man.

Say Fred is sexually attracted to Bob. Bob is a man, Fred is a man, this is gay. There is no use in arguing this because you previously indirectly stated that Bob is a man. Fred is gay.

 

i would say yes... the blonde will fade, ie; the red hair will ccome back.
a penis doesn't "come back".

and if i'm reading your comment correctly, and mistake me please if not, the surgery and process' turning parts of Bob into Bonnie COMPLETELY changes the gender?
male->female brain?

What you said about hormones, yes, true, but estrogen is in males too, on a scale from 1-10, about a 4,5 being average for a male. With about a 7.5 in testosterone.
Muscle building products have programs that focus on estrogen for an entire month, having the male build his levels... He may have high levels of estrogen like a girl would, but he is a still a man.

 

I'm not picking sides, because I am open minded, and not homophobic or anything close to that... but this seems right.

 

Define a woman.

So are you saying women that are infertile are not women at all?

When you consider a mate, do you take into considerations of genetics? Or do you go off of the person's appearance and the way they act?

 

Bonnie is a female, or atleast it would be right to define her as such both legally and personally in my opinion.

It is up to the individual person if they wish to identify a transsexual as their birth gender or the gender they identify as, regardless of if they have surgery to reflect it or not.

From a legal aspect, there are certain countries/states that will legally identify changed genders.

There's no reason not to identify a transsexual as what they are, they could be whatever gender they want, the only thing preventing them is the ignorance of individuals.

But TL;DR. Legally it varies, otherwise it is up to the individual person as to if they respect the transsexual's choice and respectfully address them as such or otherwise disregard it for religious reasons/just not agreeing with the idea of changing genders.

 

An adult human female.
Of or denoting the sex that can bear offspring or produce eggs.
A human possessing two X chromosomes.

No. Women have two X chromosomes. Bob has one X and one Y.

My consideration of a mate has nothing to do with this conversation.