Suicide, is it fair? [SENSITIVE]

You have a lack of understanding of suicide and you're trying to simplify a very complicated issue to that of "well, they failed at something so they're rage-quitting from life." Frankly, it sounds like the argument I would of made when I was 12.

Anyway, it is hardly an argument and you're ignoring all the other potential causes for suicide; furthermore, MANY (I'd say over a majority, but I don't care to go research stats) people go seek help whether in the form of therapy, talking to a friend, whatever. If someone did not go seek help, why didn't they? Did they feel like they weren't worth the help? Could they not afford the help (don't have insurance, whatever)?

While there surely are suicide for people failing at things, this "lack of education" has very little (if any) bearing on individuals who are depressed, abused, bullied, and so forth. Teens with abusive parents (whether emotional, verbal), teens being "in the closet" due to a non-understanding family, people who suffer from depression and other mental illnesses (note: I am aware that these problems are not limited to teens, but suicide in the teen LGBTQ community is quite high.)

 

I don't respect those that choose to commit suicide after not trying to beat it. If you commit suicide on a impulse, or you feel down and you can't carry the weight; yet you still didn't even attempt to try combating it, I've lost respect for you, and anyone that raised you.

 

Because suicidal victims desire acceptance from people and getting rejected is what you're saying. All comments made are pure opinion and does not reflect upon what the rest of the world thinks. Also, it doesn't help or prove your argument in anyway by belittling another person's comment by saying it is what a 12 year old would say. That's just pathetic.

 

suicide is very fair i did once almost died

 

You're generalizing an entire group of people, suicidal individuals may not care at all about acceptance. My bullying example was just that, an example, not an end-all-be-all.

SFA is made with the intent to debate. Have whatever your opinion you want, but defend it.

I think it's an ignorant comment based off a lack-of-understanding (trying to be passed as if having an understanding); furthermore, it in now way furthers my own points, just pointing out that I think it is an - somewhat shitty- point my past self would of used.

 

Then what is the real cause of suicide, I don't want a range of options like a suicide booth. I want to know the almost common thing that runs through that suicidal person's head. The only acceptable suicide I know of is when the 2 towers was about to blow, people jumped out of skyscrapers, because they get to choose how they die. Not if you're in a corner hurt, because 1.) No life purpose, 2.) No loved ones, 3.) No friends. Most suicides are either well planned out or spur of the moment. People get talked out of suicide every fucking single day, because something bad happened to them and someone has to talk them out of it. Welcome to the suicide hotline, The therapists of last resort.

 

You're arguing that people should not have control over their own bodies and person. You realize that, right?

 

In my opinion, yes suicide is fair. We own our bodies and can do as we wish. Of course suicide can have negative consequences for those around them, but to ask them not to because it would be inconvenient for you and others is even more selfish.

 

It all depends on the work, debt, and mess you leave behind when you die. if you give a single shit about anyone that's left to clean up your mess you won't put your financial burden on your family.

 

This is so dehumanizing towards those that struggle with mental illnesses...please educate yourself before you take such radical standpoints on contentious issues. Yes, some suicidal people out there are like what you said. But for the vast majority it is a mental illness combined with a devastating life event, which, no, might not be able to be resolved from their point of view, considering their frame of mind.

 

I have Mental Issues?
Lots of them actually, runs in my family. I have extreme cases of schizophrenia, ADHD, severe depression, anxiety issues, OCD, bipolar disorder. Name any mental issue, and I will probably have it one way or another. Yet I'm probably happier than most of the people on here. I've lived in poverty, have abusive and alcoholic parents yet Suicide has never crossed my mind once.

It's not about 'educating yourself', what is educating someone about suicide really doing? "Don't commit suicide or your family will be sad always". I'm killing myself why do I care, I already gave up, if you don't even have the mental capacity to weight the good and the bad, regardless of your mental state, you don't deserve respect or sympathy from anyone.

Plus suicide is not a mental illness, it's a cop out for those that cannot bear the weight of life on their shoulders, so the easiest escape route is death.

 

Well sorry, there isn't one answer for why suicides take place. Your idea of the only "acceptable suicide" shows your lack of understanding regarding the matter.

You can have a life purpose, loved ones, and friends, and still want to kill yourself.

Well those are the only two options? You either plan something, or just do something..

Are you acting as if being talked out of suicide is a bad thing? I'm not going to argue people don't commit suicide due to horrible things that have happened to them, but that is in no way the only reason.


Also, perhaps you should checkout Durkheim's four reasons for suicide, perhaps it'll provide a little bit more light on the subject.

Edit: Felt the need to respond to this guy as well.

Your personal issues - however truthful or not they are - do not account for everybody. They refer to you and just you.

The educating yourself comes from not being ignorant about issues people face and realizing there is more than one reason someone may kill themselves. It is a personal decision and people are different + good and bad are subjective, what is good to someone may be bad to someone else.

No it is not a mental illness, but it can end up being a result from suffering from one. Suicide is quite difficult and that "weight" of life can be quite heavy. Either way, it's their decision and no one is in a position to judge them.

 

Right, but isn't committing suicide ignorance in itself? You're refusing to take the responsibilities of life serious, and using suicide as a way to suffice for your clear lack of mature and responsible attitude.

You're speaking as if you have any idea what the weight of life actually is. How about spending 90% of your paycheck each month on your mothers alcohol addition and your fathers alcohol addiction; on minimal wage as well. How about having parents that have been absolutely no help in your life, how about you being the only person in the family with a job and a steady income? What do you know about anything relating or closely representing the weight of life? It's a heavy weight, and that's pushing it. If you honestly for one second think just because you're having a bad day, or your entire life has been a uphill struggle, and it means nothing, and it will never get better; so the best thing to do is kill yourself. I'll judge you all day long, you don't. deserve any form of sympathy, any at all. My days are bad, they are long, they are a struggle, but I push through them, every single day, why? Every day is a new day, everyday is some form of opportunity, you don't have to sit and sulk. Accept rejection, accept failure just as much as acceptance and succession.

18,7%(1 and 5 adults) of the human race is afflicted with some form of mental disorder, severe or minute. I think I can sufficiently say I can speak for most of the people with disorders when I say life isn't a struggle, it's what you make of life is what makes it hard. You put into life what you want out of it. Hard work is hard, lazy work is lazy. Your life is only as difficult as you make it. Suicide is a idiots way of saying I can't take it, I give up.

 

No?.. Do you understand what ignorance means? Even with your follow-up statement, that has nothing to do with ignorance.

Also not necessarily true, one can take the responsibilities of life seriously and decide they do not want to deal with them.

You are making some awfully big assumptions

I would tell them they're helping fuel their alcoholism and are part of the problem.

Your - or whoevers - experience is completely irrelevant. What you do or don't do, experience or don't experience, does not matter to someone else and whatever they face. Using your experiences as an justification why someone else should (or shouldn't) do something is often moronic. There's a difference between offering advice "oh I did that, I wouldn't suggest doing that..." and preaching "WELL, things could be way worse! What do you know???? Be glad you're alive!!!!"

The latter, is well, as I previously stated, moronic.

Once again, simplifying suicide. People don't often go, "well damn, today was a tough day at work, I'm going to kill myself!" Examples of it? Sure! Hell, look at the crash in 1929 and how many people killed themselves the day they lost their savings.

Last time I'm going to re-iterate this, I don't care about your experience and it does not matter in comparison to someone else's. People deal with different things in different ways and because someone else has it difficult - or more difficult - that does not change how things may effect oneself. You are in zero position to judge, no one is.

I am aware of the statistic and you're mis-using it. That is an American statistic and is based on the had a mental illness within the last year.

That's the problem, you cannot say that. You are not some representative of individuals with mental disorders. You having - or at least claiming to - a list of disorders, does not promote you to be a representative of mentally ill people at large.

This does not hold true, at all. Plenty of people will work hard their entire life and never grow to be anything more than your average (if that) person. Life has a way of spiraling out of control and it is impossible to control every aspect of it. An individual that is clinically depressed does not decide to be clinically depressed, nor are they making it difficult for themselves. It is possible it may appear they are making it difficult, but that's because they may be barely able to function.

 

The majority of people who commit suicide are succumbing to a mental illness, but you're acting like they're making a rational decision. It comes off as if you don't know what you're talking about, fairly strongly.

Generally, the cause is mental illness, so it doesn't make sense to talk about what is an "acceptable" suicide.

While that person is arguing from a flawed point of view, consider that the majority of those who attempt suicide are not thinking rationally. If somebody has a major mental impairment, it's a good idea to not trust their judgment, and stop them from making any stupid, irreversible decisions. For example, if your mother was having a psychotic break and believed that demons lived in her basement, you wouldn't let her give away her house for free, would you?

Selfishness doesn't enter into it. You don't blame somebody for having a heart attack or a stroke, so why would you blame them for having a mental illness?

Mental illness, not that easy.

Spoken like somebody who definitely has none of those issues. Seriously, an "extreme" case of a schizophrenic, bipolar, severely depressed person? I've literally never met a single person who suffered from ONE of those diseases who took such an "I'm better than you" approach to mental illness. Here's what you don't realize about these various mental diseases: They don't make somebody WANT to die (generally speaking), they fuck up their judgment to the point where they see it as the only escape from their demons.

NOPE. Mental illness. You're acting like suicide is a rational decision.

Again, not a quality of life issue. It's a mental illness.

Well you sure as hell don't speak for me. You come off as somebody who's had/heard of a hard life, but not somebody who's mentally ill.

http://www.mentalhealth.gov/basics/myths-facts/

Yeah, about 4% of Americans have had a serious mental issue.

 

You're acting like Suicide is something someone wakes up and performs. "Well, suicide is my only option, better do it".
You're acting like Suicide is something people just "get", something people just obtain after awhile. It's not, it's something in the back of everyone's mind regardless of what you perception of it is.
It's a path people "choose" to take, not forced to take. It's your choice to commit suicide, nobody else's.

So, tell them it's a serious issue and it will go away. Right, so I can instantly tell you've never had to deal with someone with a serious addiction issue, therefore your advice is as null as your perception on suicide.

I don't see how it isn't a QoL issue, people don't just have suicide as a issue when they're born, it's not like I can take medicine to cure suicide, you're thinking of depression, not suicide.

So, apparently you've never actually met someone who's had the ability to beat mental issues, you just waltz into a hospital and went, "Hm, I guess this is how everyone with mental illnesses are". I've had those issues, beaten them, and now a better person because of it.

Right, so you're proving the fact that Suicide is ignorance. Let me give you a great quote from someone with a concrete view on Suicide.

Refusing to accept individuality because you cant handle being something or someone you want to be, is ignorance. So your only ration thought is killing yourself. Self Reliance is key to anyone one's success, and not accepting that means you're ignorant to the fact that you will not accept your own individuality.

That doesn't make any logical sense at all. If I aim to be successful, I'm not going to sit in my room and think about success, I'm going to go out in the world and make something of myself, just because someone doesn't success doesn't mean in any caliber they won't succeed ever. You're taking a stance on the fact that just because people fail after trying their hardest, that gives them leeway to be something they don't want to be. "Well I never succeeded, better drink heavily and spiral downwards". That's a choice to be heavily depressed,never trying and sulking leads to heavy depression, that's ignorance, you're refusing to believe that you'll never be someone you aimed to be rather than accepting your own individuality and making something out of yourself.

Maybe you're right, I can't speak for everyone. However, I can say that just because I had a mental issue, it lead me to suicide, it was exactly what it was, a mental issue.

 

@omgkings, your response is quite difficult to read, but nonetheless:

- If you are giving your money to support someone else's addiction, you are part of the problem
- You can have a high quality of life & still be mentally ill
- Fail to see how suicide is ignorance and I don't care what a dead poet from the 19th century has to say about suicide
- I'm failing to see where my logic has failed me. Working hard does not always correlate to success? That's pretty logical. You can try all you want, that doesn't mean you'll succeed. This was provided in response to your ideal that you "get out what you put in", not as a leeway for doing nothing since it's impossible you won't succeed (which isn't what I stated in the first place.)
-- Also, if anything, your statements on "choosing to be depressed" are highly illogical considering one doesn't exactly choose to be mentally ill.

 

Like another post stated, it's impossible to answer this question fairly if you've never experienced it. 3 years ago I would've said it was weak minded people only that couldn't find another solution that commit suicide. However, 2 years ago I suffered with panic attacks for almost an entire year and suicide was a common thought at that time. With that said, I still don't think it should ever be the solution to a problem. There's many more ways to find help. Death is permanent. No fixing anything once you decide to end it.

 

If people want to take their own lives it's completely on them. They leave a lot grief for their loved ones usually but.. Don't keep them in your lives to make YOU happy.

 

If someone wants to go, let them... If theyre mentally ill, help them.

sad, but true.. people try to help but it usually makes it worse.