MM vouches & off site vouches

The vouch system has been annoying me on this forums, as alot of the other forums e.g parabot, aren't as well coded as this one with ip look up tool, How do we know this person with 5000+ vouches on parabot, in reality does have 4 vouches and made bot to vouch 4994 times? using off site vouches shouldn't be allowed and i think this should be addressed..

Now to second part of this, Why are mm vouches for people? they shouldn't be vouching for people when they have basically done the trade, I can understand vouching for the mm (as in me vouching for him) but why is it going the other way around. Basically some people are getting 2 vouches for 1 trade.

E.g


Were I originally brought this up
http://www.sythe.org/spam-forum/1917754-i-know-spam-forums-but-needs-sorted.html

 

Completely support, I feel like I'm giving out false trust when people request me to vouch after I MM'd their trade.

Also never understood the reasoning behind letting offsite feedback mean something on Sythe. Could easily scam newcomers saying you're someone you're not on a different forum.

 

I agree, middlemen shouldn't be vouching for the people they middlemanned for. Doesn't make sense.

 

If the 1st issue is referring to people including it in their titles as far as I remember it's strictly not allowed. As for them including it in their threads it's difficult to moderate and is ultimately up to the user's to evaluate whether the person is trustworthy based off their vouches be it here or feedback on other sites and their history on sythe.

 

I don't mind the MM thing personally.

I do support the off-site reputation thing though, it's REALLY getting old seeing dec 2015 join dates claiming 500-1000-2000 "rep" instead of vouches.


Let's be real, 95% of the site figures that's the same thing.


Can staff PLEASE go back and rediscuss the impact of this on the free market and sythe reputation/activity.


This has all but killed people doing things for rep.


Farming vouches by doing services etc used to be a common thing, now its a joke.


Reputation on almost any trading forum is being allowed to my knowledge, this has basically killed the vaule of having sythe vouches.

 

With regards to this aspect of your thread:

Vouches are just confirming a successful trade without any scams or issues arising. It's more or less up to individuals to review that vouches of the person that they are trading to decide whether they can trust them or not. If all their vouches are from an MiddleMan who has handled the trade, and that worries you, then there's no obligation to trade them.

 

No support for the MM vouch rule, outlined below:

I see it a different way. A vouch from a middleman shows something:

1. The user who received the vouch has used a middleman in the past. While they may not be the most trusted, this shows they have undergone a successful transaction with a middleman. This shows that said user wanted to have a safe transaction, which means that they are more likely to be legit in the future (more likely, not guaranteed).

Also, I think it'd be an odd double standard to have. If you're a middleman, two people are trusting you with the safety of their transaction, hence you receiving a vouch from both of them. However, under your logic, any users in a middleman should not receive a vouch. The users themselves were not trusted with anything, so why should they receive a vouch? Simple. It shows they engaged in a trade with a middleman to ensure they would be safe. Their intent was not to scam, but rather to have a safe transaction, as we all should want.

Complete support for the offsite feedback rule. 1,000 vouches and 1,000 feedback look the exact same. You should not be able to use any feedback/vouches etc from other sites on Sythe.

 

I saw your original message xD

Actually kind of makes sense with the MM vouch, so I take my support away from that. If someone says they have 50 vouches, the buyer has every right to simply check the vouches.

Still hold true with the offsite feedback on Sythe. Shouldn't even be allowed. A mention of offsite feedback = 2 day temp ban should do nicely.

 

Perhaps a little unfair for a first time offence, in all honesty I feel a little bad for those that have a reputation on other sites not being allowed to use their hard efforts to promote themselves here on Sythe, but it's too hard to regulate it.

 

"Users will be banned for 2 weeks for the following:
Self / Fake Vouching: If you fake vouches, steal vouches or in any way attempt to pass off illegitimate vouches as legitimate you will be banned for 2 weeks and be given a TWC. A second offence will result in a permanent ban.
NB: Offsite vouches are not honored or allowed on sythe."

Via the Official Sythe.org rules. Seems these are either not up to date entirely, or its a rule that is overlooked.

 

They worked hard to earn it there, so they're reputable there. It should remain the same; if they want to be reputable here, they'll have to do the grind all over again. Maybe a warning at first, but definitely enforce it harshly as it is an easy way to make a newcomer believe your false credibility.

 

I'm pretty sure a staff discussion overruled this and allowed offsite feedback which is dumb, I hope to see this rule be enforced again @ staff.

 

I think that more or less exists to stop users from, for example, adding quotes to Powerbot vouches or something similar. I'm more or less saying when people add to their titles "Trusted on Powerbot" or "200 vouches on Tribot" or whatever, that they should be given a warning first. There's a fair difference between the two.

 

Entrr said in the spam forum he's posting the off-site feedback issue in the staff lounge @ everyone here reading this.

 

Currently vouch isnt really symbol of trust, it's like history of transactions, I dont see reason why shouldnt we allow MM vouches.

Offsite feedback shouldnt be acceptable. Other sites are censoring sythe.org and other competetive markets. I dont see reason why should Sythe be any different in this case.

 

I took this exert from Dun to sum up my opinion and support - I do not think the users are worth of a vouch, only the middleman. Also support the off-site nonsense. Shouldn't be allowed.

 

I've thought the MM vouch thing for years ---> here's the thread from 2011 I made.

It was declined then and I'm assuming it will be declined now. Ultimately it's deemed that vouches are optional so it's up to you to interpret the validity of them. This get's tricky when we don't have a feedback system and we are using an archaic "vouch system" of random posts in a thread, some of which are quoted and pasted into threads leading to a user having to go on a witch hunt through multiple threads if they truly want to check the validity of a users vouches.

tl;dr great idea, would totally fix issues with newcomers but won't change.

 

Yes it is. Maybe that's the staff's official stance on it, but you're blind if you don't think that people see vouches as a symbol of trust.

 

Zuzel is correct in essense of what he is saying. Vouches are more of a history of one's transactions. The more transactions one does, the more trusted they appear to be, hence where the trust factor comes.

But that's an entirely bigger and different issue than the one discussed on this thread.

 

I think Zuzel may be correct to an extent. But I agree with the fact that probably 95% of sythe users define people's trust based on how many vouches they are (not many people go through the vouches and check out what they're actually vouched for)

Some people could have 400 vouches all from using other trusted MMs.
People with a gold selling thread of [400 vouches] listed in the title, will easily attract buyers. New or old. And may end up being scammers with the intentions of racking up fake vouches to get customers.

For those reasons I support the thing about MM vouches.