Suicide.

I left the title just as suicide as I want to discuss multiple things about it, and I'm sure we'll get side-tracked onto other things.
Also, I'm sure I could find a thread, but I feel like bumping a thread from sometime back with already a decent amount of posts and conversations would just make things unorganized.

Onto the topic now..

For starters, what are your thoughts on suicide?
Now, I don't mean your thoughts over doing it yourself, the general concept of suicide.
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This may be an unorganized post, I'm sorta going to ramble, will try and clean it up once I'm done.

So my thoughts are along the lines of this..
If someone wants to kill themselves, let them. There are plenty of people who want to live, so we should worry about helping them first. I don't know if that's the right way I want to put it, but it sums up a bunch. Sure, there's 'clinical depression' and people want help, and want to talk to people. There's the attention seekers, then the over-dramatic people who just want to kill themselves due to having some life problems. Some people won't listen and won't help themselves. Some people want help, and a purpose in life, those are the people we should try and save. Instead we have facilities that parents put their kids in to "prevent suicide and get them help" which from my knowledge, it mostly doesn't help, and in a lot of cases, does the opposite. Helplines are a different story though to me, because people call them when they want/need someone to talk too. Maybe they can't talk to their parents, or don't have friends they can talk to seriously. I'm not sure how much money goes into the said facilities, but the money could be used to actually help people who WANT to live. People who want to commit suicide sicken me, due to the reason that people want to live and they can think so seriously about losing it.

I know I sorta repeat the same things, and get a bit off tracks, but this is the kind of stuff I wanna talk about. I know this is more of morals, but should still be here.

 

To address the deliberate suicide when terminal illness is not concerned: What about the many people who are talked out of suicide and are later grateful? It seems a waste of life for someone to kill themselves as a result of an emotional imbalance that may not be permanent. Better to stop them, let them calm down, and help them to overcome their mental illness, rather than see them waste their life based on feelings that are almost certainly not permanent. Furthermore, making suicide legal would mean an attitude shift in society. It would legitimize suicide, ad the the state would be seen to endorse it as a measure to end mental suffering.

 

For starters, I was never talking about making it legal. I personally think it's stupid and should never be considered. Those who want to take their own life though, simply should not live. There are those who get talked out of suicide, sure. They are grateful, yeah, but we spend too much money on them when most of the time facilities are too useful. "They're still saving lives" of course, but we could be saving more with the same amount of money and time.

 

The general census on suicide is it being selfish. Although it's true, it's completely circumstantial. That doesn't change my view on it. Suicide is for the weak.

 

And that, my friend, is half the problem. Ignorance.

 

What information am I lacking? Don't know how I am being ignorant here. Suicide shows signs of weakness. Instead of trying to find ways to overcome their despair, they end their life. Is that not weak?

 

Let me explain something for you;

Do you call disabled people weak? Do you call a retired veteran with no limbs weak? Why is that when any part of the body is broken or damaged you get sympathy but when your brain or mental wellbeing is damaged you're called weak and pathetic?

Yes, there are people who maybe attention seek and say their life is over when a popstar doesn't tweet them back. Equally there are people who complain about their lives and they've just had a bad day at work or hate their boss. But to get to the point of actual attempted suicide, takes years and years of depression and more courage than most people have to finally do.

Do you not think people with depression try and get help? But they think people with ignorant mindsets like you will laugh at them and think they're weak.

 

Am I calling disabled people weak? No. If they kill themselves because they are disabled, then yes. The point is flying over your head. If you can overcome your despair, no matter the length, you're strong willed. Ending your life because you feel it's necessary proves their weakness.

 

It's the same thing. A part of the body isn't functioning properly. You aren't in your right mind when you choose to do that and it's not physically possible to look on the "bright side" or "just get help" sometimes. You don't "feel it's necessary", there's nothing else in your mind all day but death.

Go live some, please.

 

How is it the same thing?

Also if you want to kill yourself, it's a need.

Necessary = Need

 

You must have no experience with depression or suicide in your life. I personally have never though about suicide, but I have been quite depressed plenty of times. I've had a lot of friends who were/are depressed, some suicidal friends. I've lost friends to suicide too.

Sure, there is weakness. They gave in over time, but to them it took strength to make that choice. You've probably led a good life with minimal problems not having to make a hard decision, but even if it's the wrong choice, it still takes a good amount of strength to make it. You think they just rushed right into suicide? They tried over years to get through their problems, but they saw no hope. You may call that weakness and that is one reason I believe you're ignorant.

Aside from that, I'm assuming you never read the full OP, because we aren't just addressing what you think about suicide. That's just a part.

 

Just because one is physically visible and one is mental doesn't mean it isn't the same thing? It's something that needs medical attention. Telling someone who's depressed to "get help" or "think happy thoughts" is like asking a disabled man to walk when he can't. It's not always as simple as ignorant people think.

 

Everyone has gone through depression. Does that mean I'm going to kill myself? No. Unfortunately for your friends, they are close minded. There is an answer for everything, excluding ending your life.

If you're going to have an argument about a subject, don't bring your personal experiences into it, it will only cloud your judgment.

Also, how did this go from suicide participants to disabled people? There is no correlation between the two.

 

Personal life brings examples. I think you're the one being closed-minded here. Right now you're just arguing but saying nothing about the subject at hand.

Once again, you need to read the posts before answering. He used disables as an example and you replied without reading, I'm assuming.

Not everyone has gone through depression, at all. Depression isn't just being down for awhile. Maybe you don't understand that.

 

Incorrect. Depression is often called out when one is in a bad place. Depression doesn't always happen for a reason. Depression is constant, uncaused sadness that can't be overcome, sometimes, by those suffering. Don't argue about a subject you're clearly clueless about. Suicide isn't something everyone does because they're sad. Look up clinical depression and living with it before you start to post bullshit.

It's a part of the body that's functioning wrongly and needs medical attention. You're saying "too weak to get help" which is like saying "to weak to walk". That is correlation & example I'm giving. So stop avoiding it and reiterating it and actually address it.



Not going to bother arguing with an ignorant, misinformed idiot so I'll address the OP. The help given by medical services is very general. A GP can only do so much such as prescribe anti-dep.'s and suggest a therapist. However, sometimes even making it to a GP to admit you have a problem can be a no-go for someone with suicidal thoughts and tendencies or depression. Counselling from a specialist does help over time, and has amazing results when attended long term. The problem isn't in the medical sector or support sector but rather closer to home. If people were more informed about the subject of depression (which is more and more common these days, media being the biggest cause in teenagers) then people would talk about it, notice it and encourage those they know to get help or make them get help. Having someone to support you through the process is a huge relief.

 

That was a bad example and was out of line. He called me out as if I was talking about people with disabilities which was shown nowhere in context. You should be the one reading carefully, not me. You should look up the definition of being close minded, then come back to tell me if I was wrong about your friends.

Depression is sadness. It has different meanings, I should know, my therapist explained it to me.

What kind of correlation is that? You're calling disabled people weak.

 

I'm saying you are*

 

Instead of antagonizing me, and putting words in my mouth, come up with fruitful arguments.

You're trying to prove my opinion wrong, only to fail. Not sure if that is a tactic, or an unintentional defense.

 

Swell.

If you go to counseling willingly, then yes, it can be of help over time. But I'm talking about facilities where your parents take you and drop you off at, such as North-Star (Place here in Alaska, not sure where else it is, cbf to do research) where parents drop off their "troubled" children, along the lines of delinquents to depressed children, to just kids who backtalk their parents. Or any other facilities where you drop off your child to get help. If the child doesn't want to go it's not going to help most of the time and usually makes things worse. If the person doesn't want help, trying to help won't make it any better. They have to help themselves first.

(North-Star is for kids/teens hence why I used children)

You are still wrong about my friends. I can't explain it to you if you have no experience and will stay closed-minded over the subject. Arguing with you is like arguing over the topic if God exists to a profound Christian.

And in his example he's saying if you call people who are suicidal weak, you are calling disabled people weak.

 

@Ghast - Until you address this and tell me why it's any different because it's not physically visible I'm not going to answer you.

Correctional facilities don't work (completely personal hunch), I don't have any experience. I didn't go to counselling for depression willingly, quite the opposite, but it did help over time for me. Whether that's just coincidental - I don't know. It's not all holding hands and singing kumbaya, you do need a semi-stern approach, but addressing your problems and receiving some sort of support through bettering your life can ease the effects tremendously; for some people it never goes away, however.