Obama Or Romney?

Note: I DID read the rules. I wouldn't consider this a "bashing opinion" because I am backing it up with factual information... events that have occurred. If need be, I can provide liable sources. If this cannot belong in the current section please move it to the spam section. I will report any posts that are off-topic or do not include factual proof. Thanks for taking the time to read!

Who do you think would do best in office? Why would they benefit America? I want to hear both sides. Romney supporter here. I can go into detail on why I feel he is the better candidate (ask if you want me to); however, if reelected, Obama will destroy the USA. Why you might ask? Take a look at what has happened these past four years. Obama started off with loads of promise - promises that were broken. With Obama in office, the unemployment rate went up way too high. Next, he wants to pass a socialized healthcare system. This healthcare system would have so many negatives. Private/family doctors will be getting paid shit (possibly resulting in them quitting their job), hard working Americans will have to pay even more for the lazy Americans, and could move our country more into fascist state. Unity as a nation is fine but people need freaking economic freedom. It is unfair for hard working Americans to lose a their money so the people sitting on public assistance programs (who are capable of working) can sit on their asses and not do a damn thing. All Obama managed to do over the course of his presidency was make more people rely on public assistance programs and let the Middle East go full retard. Obama doesn't want to drill in the United States due to various environmental issues, yet wants independence from Middle East oil. Let's not forget how Obama helped North Korea out so much. It's perfectly acceptable to hand out 265,000 tons of food to North Korea in order for them to freeze all nuclear efforts. WHY!? Why would you do such a thing??? We have hungry people that should be taken care of in OUR country first. Moreover, North Korea has cheated America before by breaching an agreement. Do you recall when Bill Clinton was in office and the Agreed Framework was signed? History only repeats itself; it is a continuous, never-ending cycle. How did Obama have the audacity to give away 265,000 tons of food and sign another agreement with North Korea? He is a terrible president and an even worse leader.

 

This is not factual information.

 

1) When Obama took office unemployment was at 7.8% and the economy was in the midst of a crash. All together we lost 8 million jobs during that crash that started under Bush and continued under Obama. Then under Obama we have added more than 4 million jobs. Half of the jobs back from the worst economic downturn since the great depression all with two unpaid for wars and massive amounts of debt before he took office? That's a pretty good feat considering the Republicans in congress have tried to stop all efforts to revive the economy because their top priority was to not let Obama have a second term (many Republican leaders said that was their goal on national TV).

2) It isn't socialized health care. It is forcing everyone to have health care so that rates drop for everyone. It also cuts red tape, eliminates fraud, switches method of payment for doctors so that they have an incentive to keep their patients healthy, not to order a lot of tests and procedures that may not be needed. Lazy americans will not get free rides. They have to buy their own insurance or pay a fine. If they do not make enough to pay for insurance the government will cover them as it already does. In addition to that it is illegal for hospitals for turn down emergencies and so the lazy americans you are speaking of are already getting care and not paying for it as they go to the emergency room and never pay shifting the cost onto everyone else.

3) You say there is fraud on our social assistance programs? Your solution is to elect Romney would would cut them drastically, hurting families that actually need them and do nothing to stop people from defrauding the system still? How about we go after solutions to combat fraud and then go after solutions to get people to only use welfare as a means to get back on their feet. Oh wait, Obama has already done that second one. He has given states the freedom to come up with new methods of trying to get people back on their feet and working again. Also: More people are on welfare because the economy sucks not because Obama passed a law (lol he can't without congress that does nothing) that puts more people on it.

4) We shouldn't be in the middle east at all. Obama helped topple a dictator. He pulled out of Iraq. We have supported democracy. He isn't letting Israel pull us into a massive unneeded war that will be worse than Iraq or Afghanistan.

5) Obama has issued more drilling permits than Bush did (I believe). Production is higher than it was under Bush (I believe). So he is drilling and gas prices haven't dropped like everyone with a brain guessed.

6) North Korea needs food. We can't punish millions of people because they live in a dictatorship. Telling them they have to act the way we want in return for a prize is... guess what..... TRAINING. Have you ever trained a dog? We also called off food aid when they tested that missile. You stated before you want us to control the middle east. That requires lots of money that could be used here. Your ok with that but not money for North Korea? That's an awful double standard.

But you know why I won't vote for Romney? He's a liar. He's a cheat. He's too afraid to release his tax returns which makes me think he's a criminal. He hates the middle class. His budget would add 5 trillion dollars to the debt while cutting taxes for the rich massively and raising taxes on the middle class. He'd destroy our safety net programs. He would go to war with Iran. He would take a hard line on immigration policy. Or no he wouldn't. Depends who you are. If a hispanic asks him he would say he would support something like the dream act. If a far right christian asks him he would say BUILD AND A WALL AND KEEP EM OUT. He refuses to give any details of any of his positions. He changes positions as it suits him politically. When he was governor he was a moderate. He passed RomneyCare which Obamacare is basically a copy of. He supported women's rights. Before he was governor he supported gay marriage completely and totally. Now he doesn't. We have no idea what he really believes other than the fact that he thinks he's entitled since he grew up in a wealthy family and had operturines normal americans do not get as easily and he got rich and he thinks the rest of America should let him keep more of his money because he is rich and that makes him entitled to it.

 

I completely agree with this. I mean all it takes is to look at the video that was taken of him at that dinner party to realize when in public he doesn't say what he means. I mean hell, he doesn't even have a platform besides lower taxes and get rid of medicare. Consider the fact that the Republican party still isn't 100% sure about him. It is clearly evident that they made a mistake by making him candidate. While none of the others were anymore electable than he was.

 

I agree with this. If Romney becomes the next president (doubtful), I will be very disappointed.

 

I am Canadian but the research I did, to sum it all up I think Obama is helping America a lot more than Bush and personally think he's better than Romney, however this is all personalopinion I don't mean to bash Romney.

 

As someone who does not live in America, I cannot understand how Romney gets any votes at all.
He is a homophobic, racist, religious fanatic nutcase with no international relationship skills to speak of, his tour of Europe was disastrous and know of no one who thinks he is better than Obama.
Would be astounded if America votes for this frankly dangerously unbalanced individual to be in charge of their country.

 

There are only 2 kinds of people that will vote for Romney, that is the ignorant, stupid, or ill-informed which seems much like the OP or the super rich looking for the deregulation and tax cuts.

 

And those who hate Obama.

 

I assumed that was a given and was most likely included in the first category.

 

Just gonna drop in and say that Canada has that socialized healthcare system and I doubt more than 10% of the country would have it any other way. I sort of think that you guys don't know that you want it because you've never had it - Think of the benefits, you're fresh out of college and all of a sudden you break your leg. You can't afford the fees, so you end up taking loans to pay off the bills. With our healthcare system, you go to the hospital and get it fixed, easy as that.

And for the record we still have private and family doctors, and they get paid very well.

Just my 2 cents, I don't know anything about the American election so that's all I've got.

 

Well I do not live in America but I do try to keep up with things there.

What I've noticed is that he is by far better than Romney.
Romney lies, manipulates and has thoughts where we would think of they would have died about 50 years ago. Who the hell even says such things about gay people these days? So conservative.. my god.

While the economy hasn't got stronger, in fact even worse, I do think Obama will be able to fix it in the next term. (If he does get one)
He sadly had to clean up alot of sh*t from Bush, Bush was the one that made it so hard for Obama. All by all Obama has done fairly well too.
Health insurances are a VERY big plus into the American system.

And I bet alot of people have already benefited from it too.
One thing that dissapointed me about Obama: the allowing of even more off-shore drilling. Why oh why? But that is probably a personal opinion too.

To sum it up I'd say Obama for sure. Way better than Romney, doing a way better job than Bush too. He's the best choice for the further development of America at the moment.

 

Neither, both aren't fit for the job and don't reach the expectations they set for their voters. Knowing it isn't easy, I can see them bringing america down fast.

 

America has a massive crowd of right wingers that hate the government. They give a lot to charity instead. The leftwingers would rather taxes be hiked and have the government provide services which obviously works out a whole lot better.

 

1) Thanks for providing some numbers. Unemployment is currently at 8.1%, and would at over 18% if people hadn't simply stopped looking for work. Close to 8 million americans have stopped looking for work since Obama was elected. This brings the rate up to about 18%.



^ That picture shows Bush deficits versus Obama deficits. I think the picture speaks for itself. While you may contend that Obama had to deal with the economic downturn of 2008, I would respond with the fact that there have been no meaningful cuts to Medicare, Social Security, and other entitlements that are continually expanding in cost.

With regards to the jobs again, Obama has spent close to $280,000 dollars per job on stimulus and other programs in order to keep/create jobs.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/obama-s-economists-stimulus-has-cost-278000-job_576014.html

2) Cutting down on fraud, red tape, pre-existing conditions, etc are all things endorsed by the Republican party. The only thing not endorsed by the Republicans is the individual mandate, which requires individuals to purchase insurance. There are many reasons people wouldn't want to purchase health insurance. People who are middle-aged, healthy, and have an extremely low risk of getting seriously ill may feel no need to purchase healthcare. The individual mandate was not supported by the Republicans and Mitt Romney because of the forced purchase of a good from a private corporation, that many did not want or need. Finally, this act in no way cuts costs. In fact, Obamacare costs the government and economy significant amounts of money. In additional to the ~1.5% raise in tax burden thanks to Obamacare, there is the increase in medicare tax rates, and the shifting of funds from Medicare to Obamacare.

3)The government has been ignoring important programs that prevent abuse of welfare, http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/313350/obama-s-attack-workfare-robert-rector

Social services have to be cut, one way or another. Medicare and social security spending are on the rise, and will consume a ridiculous amount of the GDP by 2024. In order to stop this, cuts must be made to entitlements. It hurts to stop programs that can help people but these programs are too generous, and have to take into account our aging population, and increased debt.

4) I personally think Obama's foreign policy with regards to issues like Libya good. However, leaving Iraq/other middle eastern countries simply creates power vacuums that create dictatorships like the one's we sought to destroy. Also, if you don't think America should be in the middle east, that's great, but the reality is that America has vested financial interests and military ties in the Middle East, and not cooperating with our allies to prevent Chinese, Russian, and Iranian influence is harmful to the American empire, and sends a bad message to our allies abroad about the willingness of America to defend its strategic interests.

5 and 6 aren't interesting so I won't really bother disputing those points....

but calling Romney and liar and a cheat is ridiculous. First of all, having not seen his tax returns, it's ridiculous of you to call him a cheat. Oh jeez, he doesn't want to release tax returns where he used perfectly legal strategies that we be manipulated during a presidential campaign. Good god, how terrible.

Mudslinging aside, Obama would go to war with Iran too, Obama has added more to the debt in 4 years than Bush did in 8... yada yada

The one thing I agree with you about is the flip-flopping, but either way, I'm not a Romney supporter, and I don't really care who the candidate is, I care what the party is proposing and what the platform is, and Obama's platform is too shaky and disastrous already to support.

 

I would just like for you to note that both of your sources are right-biased. The first source is 90% attacks on Obama, I mean it is really ridiculous and the numbers on unemployment aren't correct. I can find a blog/website that is equally as left biased and find points to refute both of the points you made.

See I have my own unemployment number bar graphs:



As well as an article to refute yours from the New York Post:
http://campaignstops.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/08/22/has-obama-made-the-job-situation-worse/

It clearly shows that job growth from the failed Bush economics have recovered.

Also another shocking looking graph that illustrates the point:



and this one:




Truly though, the point is that you can find data that swings either way. It is almost impossible to find a non-biased source.


Concerning social programs I found this article interesting:
http://campaignstops.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/09/24/we-are-the-96-percent/

 

It is indeed factual information. If need be I can provide dependable sources for all of which I stated.

1. I agree with you to an extent. Bush did mess up big time and Obama was put into office during a terrible time. However, do you not recall when Congress was majority Democrats? He had plenty of opportunities to pass meaningful bills. Did he do that? No. That's where he fucked up. Four years is more than enough time to make something out of a shitty scenario. Obama failed to do so.

2. It is socialized healthcare. Research the Affordable Care Act. People who have more wealth will be paying more than before because lazy Americans refuse to go out and work. My family doctor (private doctor) already refuses to accept Medicaid and other government issued insurances because they get paid shit. My family doctor is contemplating quitting medical practice if Obama pulls through with his promises because her business will go to shit. You might also want to take a look at what Sythe himself said about socialized healthcare systems. It is a terrible idea.

3. Romney plans on cutting back on public assistance programs. For example, with the life expectancy going higher and higher by the years, Romney wants to push back the required age to retire. If these people are able to work why should they retire and collect funds from the government? Pushing the age limit back by 3-5 years will save us BILLIONS of dollars.

4. Go check the level of nuclear activity in the Middle East since Obama "pulled out." On top of that, why don't you research what's going on in the Middle East overall since Obama came into office.

5. He refused to drill in so many beneficial areas in the United States because of environmental issues. This will have to done inevitably in the future since oil is decreasing. If you take the correct safety measures, little environmental damage can be caused.

6. How would we be punishing them? Why can't North Korea resort to agriculture? Why would we sign an agreement with them that gives me loads of food when they have cheated us before? Poor analogy. YOU CAN'T TEACH AN OLD DOG NEW TRICKS. If North Korea didn't cheat us before with the previous agreement under Bill Clinton I would have absolutely no problem with what Obama did. Do a little research on the Agreed Framework that was signed by North Korea and the United States. While you're at it, please look up what happened with the agreement and why it was breached. Thanks!

Romney was definitely not the best candidate for the Republican party, and they certainly messed up with putting him there; however, he has a very well-thought agenda for economical reform, foreign policy, and strong military. If you took the time to look through it you might change your mind. Don't go off of what people say. You should find reliable and trustworthy sources.

 

I am not even going to touch this as I can tell that you have little to no idea what you are talking about.

It isn't socialized healthcare, do you know what socialized healthcare is?

So you're saying force retirees to work until they are drained of every last bit of life is responsible? Oh yeah.

Again, not even going to touch this. You seem to be one of those people that think the US is the protector of the free world like some kind of Democracy Condom.

Source?

Your argument is that we should punish those people because they can't resort to other methods because of a terrible government. That is about like making retirees work until they're about to die. It makes a lot of sense obviously.

He has none of those things. He is so indecisive and back stabbing that it is impossible to know what he stands for. All we know is that he believes 46% of Americans are lazy, good for nothings that wallow in their own pity and do not try. He is so out of touch with the American majority that if he gets elected we will become a two class nation much like the days of feudalism.

 

1) Your picture is wrong. 2000 was Clinton's budget. 2009 was Bush's. The budgets carry over one year. Bush's budget was the largest on your graph and Obama has reduced it each year (not really since he has very little control over tax revenue but).

2) Wrong. The indivdual mandate is a Republican idea from the Clinton era and done first by Mitt Romney. Romeny also praised Isreils health system. It is an indivual mandate system. Oh and wrong again. Obamacare streghthens Medicare. It gives states more money not less.

3) Wrong yet again. Medicare fraud prosecutions are up since Obamacare was passed because it gave more funding and priority to prosecuting fraud. (I saw these stats over a year ago but I believe I am correct). And they do not have to be cut. They have to be tweaked so they are viable. This is where the Democrats need to get off their ass and where the Republicans need to compromise. Raise SS retirement age to 67 and it would help immensely.

4) Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong. Are we supposed to stay in Iraq forever? We created a government for them. We stayed for years fighting the power vacuum we created. They aren't entirely stable but there isn't a civil war or struggle for power right now. There may be one in the future but not right now.

And America isn't an empire. We can have influence without invading middle eastern countries. I'm not saying pull all troops home. I'm saying don't fucking invade Iran and tell Israel to fuck off about bombing Iran.

5) You know I'm right so you are ignoring it. Lol.

6) You also know I'm right so you are ignoring it. Lol.

He added more debt because of things called entitlements. When the economy sucks and no one has jobs the government pays for a whole bunch of shit. Obama didn't just decide to start mailing unemployment checks out. It just always happens and unless you change the unemployment law you have to fund it and good luck getting anything meaningful done when the Republicans will not compromise.

And he is a liar. The fact checkers are catching lie after lie after lie. The RNC produced one of the most lie filled speeches ever. The DNC produced almost an hour of facts and specifics that fact checkers only found one misrepresented fact in.

 

Little to no idea? Do you disagree about the numbers in Congress during Obama's earlier years in office?

I do know what socialized healthcare is. It would be destroying our economic freedom.

Until they are drained of every last bit of life? What!? Are you insane? There are SO many Americans who can work past the age of 62. I'm not saying hard labor... there are plenty of jobs available. For instance, my Uncle works for the IRS and he has a lot of co-workers who are over the age of 70. A close friend of his recently retired from the IRS at the age of 85 or 86. She was still able to work but she felt that she put in her share of work. Why can she do it but others cannot?

Democracy condom? The Middle East is a potential threat to the United States. If they are indulging in nuclear activity we should stop them. They are dangerous people. Do you not care about the well-being of Americans?

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/editorials/ct-edit-pipeline-20120119,0,3017097.story

http://www.politifact.com/rhode-isl...resident-obamas-refusal-issue-offshore-drill/

Punish them? How are we punishing them? The North Korean are NOT our concern in the first place. Let the North Korean government take care of their own people.

Feudalism? Are you serious? I won't even make a comment on this.